Alkali Fixers - The Myths & Legends

[Peter Schrager]

my personal experience tells me that TF4 is waaay overated....been using it lately and not all that impressed....even gives off a weird smell after fixing
give me a good powder anytime that I can mix fresh
Best, Peter

[Ian Grant]

my personal experience tells me that TF4 is waaay overated....been using it lately and not all that impressed....even gives off a weird smell after fixing
give me a good powder anytime that I can mix fresh

Best, Peter

This is what others have said as well, that doesn't mean it's a bad fixer, just that the so called advantages are over hyped, and it may well have no real benefits compared to say Hypam/Ilford Rapid Fixer or another equivalent.

Ian

[Photo Engineer]

The odor is very weak ammonia due to pH and ammonia. The major benefits in TF-4 are in the wash rate. Of course, it keeps very well too. I have kept it at least 2x - 4x longer on the shelf as concentrate and as working solution than any other fixer.

PE

[PhotoJim]

I use TF-4. I'm no photochemist, but I like the longevity of it, and I like the short wash times that it permits. It lets me avoid a wash aid step, and saves me significant washing time (which is also pretty environmentally beneficial).

Yes, it stinks. So do acid fixers; I'm not that fond of the smell of acetic acid.

I can also forgo a stop bath step since the developer will not deleteriously affect my fixer's pH. I use plan water instead.

Sure, TF-4 is a little more costly but it is not ridiculous. The price of the film is a lot more significant than the price of the photochemistry.

I started using it because I use PMK a lot (and I still do) but I've come to use it for all of my film processing. I haven't yet used it for paper processing (particularly for RC since the wash times are already so short) but I might adopt it for fibre paper at some point.

If you don't feel that alkaline fixers add value to your processing, feel free to use acid fixers. I won't mind.

[Photo Engineer]

I am now able to formulate an odorless, high speed fixer that has long shelf life. It uses the same wash cycle as TF-4. Bill Troop and I did the work on this.

I am also able to formulate an odorless, high speed fixer with long shelf life that just about cuts the wash cycle in half.

Both of these can work with a stop bath, and BTW - TF-4 works well with a stop bath too. I've tried it and proven it to myself. Beware that all alkaline fixes can fail if you don't use a running water rinse after the developer. The development does not stop properly and the fixer goes bad faster due to carryover as the standing rinse seasons in with used developer.

PE

[Ian Grant]

Jim, you surprise me wash times with films are always fairly short, much the same as RC papers, so the benefit should be far greater with paper which needs more water.

I haven't seen anyone recommending significantly shorter wash times than Ilford suggest with Hypam/Ilford Rapid Fixer, and as tests show no difference compared to Hypam with PMK and other Pyro developers something doesn't quite stack up.

I'm trying to find the scientific evidence not the myths, however I am willing to accept that sometimes the unproven is true. I had a Virology lecturer back in 72/3 who said many cases of cervical cancer were caused by a virus, we know & are sure it's true but we just can't prove it, it was 20+ years before the proof was found & accepted.

If I still had access to an AA-spectrometer I'd do some tests of papers fixed in different fixers Alkaline & Acidic after different wash times, I've no idea what happened to the Varian AA machine I bought 14 years ago but it sat idle for quite a long time. It was accurate to a few PPM. (parts per million).

We used it to test for precious metals mainly for the jewellry trade, Gold, Silver, Platinum & Palladium as well other constituents in Jewellery, but we had a vast array of tubes for most other metals.

Photo labs used us to test fixers, & bleach fixes, and the results we reported would be far higher than the refiners claimed was in the solutions, but then I've worked on both sides, so know what really happens The irony was we tested for both sides

Anyway despite all that I'm still struggling to find any accurate information on the benefits of an alkaline Fixer like TF-4 compared to developers like Hypam.

Ian

[dancqu]

my personal experience tells me that TF4 is waaay over
rated....been using it lately and not all that impressed....
even gives off a weird smell after fixing give me a good
powder anytime that I can mix fresh Best, Peter

Like to stay alkaline? Try TF-2. All dry components.
They last and last. Easy Home Brew. Likely no odor.
I use just the thiosulfate of the formula and know no
odor. The thiosulfate alone makes for a very near
neutral fix. Just enough for the session is mixed.
I use it very dilute one-shot. Works well with
my single tray method of processing. Dan

[Steve Goldstein]

I am now able to formulate an odorless, high speed fixer that has long shelf life. It uses the same wash cycle as TF-4. Bill Troop and I did the work on this.

I am also able to formulate an odorless, high speed fixer with long shelf life that just about cuts the wash cycle in half.

Both of these can work with a stop bath, and BTW - TF-4 works well with a stop bath too. I've tried it and proven it to myself. Beware that all alkaline fixes can fail if you don't use a running water rinse after the developer. The development does not stop properly and the fixer goes bad faster due to carryover as the standing rinse seasons in with used developer.

PE

Any chance of these becoming available at some point, or of publishing the formulae?

[Peter Schrager]

OK Dan you got me....what is the formula for TF2?? is it in the cookbook? I'll go look now....for papers I use the michael smith fixer formula....it's way cheaper to buy 25 pounds of NaThiosulfate and add the bisufite fresh for the printing session....have never had any problems with washing; staining;etc.
obviously I make a lot of prints but cost wise it makes sense to me
Best, Peter

[Photo Engineer]

Any chance of these becoming available at some point, or of publishing the formulae?

Super fix should be published here in the articles section.

PE