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  1. #1

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    I was reading someone's (somewhere on the Web) suggestion that fiber prints can be soaked for a few hours with only several changes of water. Supposedly this removed enough fixer to make them archivally stable. I'm assuming they were also selenium toned.
    Does anyone have experience with this or done testing? It sure would conserve water and make life easier!

  2. #2

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    mark..
    i dont know of this method, but i dont think that tests will give u some orientation about the archival properties of this method. archival properties are not judged in a time of days weeks or months. not even years. trust the menufacurers recomendations, they know very well their job. selenium of course helps to it, since it is more resistant.
    u can have the washers as well. there are good and cheap ones and they can save water as well. for me it is important as well since water in israel is very expenssive.
    generally, ilford recomendation is to use high concentrated fixer for short time. u can use as well the washing aids (gallery from ilford, tetenal lavaquick, or wash aid from fotospeed). they reduce the washing time dramatically. also, u can use the selenium (for archival purposes and for increasing the dmax) deluted in the washing aid solution. it works very well.
    victor

  3. #3
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    The selenuim doesn't really enter into it this thought process.. Selenium is just another way to archivally treat your prints but the idea of soaking with a number of water changes has been around a while. It in itself is archival.

    The idea is that the fixer leaches from the print in standing water, and doesn't necessarily need constant running water, although it does need a few changes of water.

    The selenuim/sepia/gold/ toners just are added insurance as they change the chemical composition of the print making it more stable.

    I use an archival print washer and as I'm printing and toning, I soak the finished prints in the washer until I an done printing. Then I have the water running for about an hour. Many people have the water running even less than this.

    There are residual fixer test you can buy to test that the fixer is gone.

    Hope this helps,


    Michael McBlane

  4. #4
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    I use this method and have tested the prints - it does work. I only use one half change of water after 30 minutes and soak for another 30 minutes. This is after 5 minutes in Adorama generic version of Perma Wash. There is no color stain when I use a residual hype test. If I only wash for a few minutes and skip the Perma Wash I get a severe stain, so the test seems to be working.

  5. #5

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    Kodak, at one time, had recommendations for using the soak and dump method. As I recall, it involved several cycles of twenty minute or so soaks, with a complete refresh for each cycle. I wish that I could remember the number of cycles, but think it was five. If one were to use the Ilford high concentrate, short fixing time method, combining with a hypo-eliminator/neutralizer, then fewer and/or shorter cycles would seem to be in order.
    Old Red Head

  6. #6

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    I've now exclusively using Formulary TF-4 fixer, which requires no hypo clear and a relatively short wash. So far, I've seen no downside to this, although as noted above, the true test of archival permanence is, simply, time.

    I do know this: with thiosulfate fixers, I always had problems with stains from selenium toner. With TF-4, this problem has diappeared. Is there a connection? I don't know.

    I do know that TF-4 makes life much easier for a fiber printer. Just develop, water stop, fix, quick wash, tone, then wash for 15-25 minutes. I'd hate to go back to hypo.

  7. #7

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    I knew I'd read about akaline fixers and selenium, but couldn't remember where. It was at Lloyd Erlick's excellent website at http://www.heylloyd.com. His claim is that the acidic conditions present if all traces of hypo are not washed out can contribute to staining during the toning process. I'm not a chemist, so............

    This website is highly recommended. Good technical articles, and an impressive gallery to boot. IMHO, this is protraiture at the highest level. See http://www.heylloyd.com/photos8/9611...nter.htm#enter. Be sure to read the comments!

  8. #8
    ann
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    It was my understanding that Bruce Barnbaum uses a soaking method for washing prints. Changes from tray to tray, letting them soak for about 10 minutes in each. Am sure there are others on this site who have taken workshops with Bruce who can either support or deny this as the truth.

    I do know of others who use a soaking technique and find it successfull. I have a commercial washer available and so i tend you use it because it is there, easy and ??????????

  9. #9
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    The staining in selenium toner comes from the acidic elements in the fixer if you don't wash them out. I'm going to use an alkaline fixer for my fb prints for these reasons.
    "He took to writing poetry and visiting the elves: and though many shook their heads and touched their foreheads and said 'Poor old Baggins!' and though few believed any of his tales, he remained very happy till the end of his days, and those were extraordinarily long "- JRR Tolkien, ' The Hobbit '.

  10. #10
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