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  1. #1
    DanielStone's Avatar
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    Tri-X 400 35mm in hc-110b

    hey all,

    I've been running some basic film tests the last couple of days, and so far so good. I have decided to try out some 400 tri-x, in addition to TMX, TMY and Ilford HP5, to see which one i like the best.

    after looking at EK's pdf on Tri-X, the Kodak recommended time for tri-x at 400(normal development in a 2 reel(16oz) tank at 20deg C) is 3:45.

    To me, that seems awful short, since the t-max films are in the 6 minute range in the same soup.

    If you guys could confirm/deny/help me with this, it would be much appreciated. Right now with going back to school, I have to scrounge for pennies to buy film . So I can't go through exhaustive testing.

    I am printing on a condenser enlarge at school right now, 4x5 besler. So IIRC, the times should be shortened when using a condenser enlarger in order to attain normal contrast, right?

    Please help,

    Thanks

    -dan


  2. #2
    Chris Nielsen's Avatar
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    Massive Dev chart suggests:

    Tri-X 400 HC-110 B 400 4.5-6

    Also has a note:
    Kodak time of 3.75 mins is considered to be short
    Last edited by Chris Nielsen; 07-25-2009 at 04:24 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: added note

  3. #3

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    Yup. That combo has a very short published developing time. Be extremely consistent, as very small variations in processing can have large effects at such a short time. Or, just do what I have been doing, and use dilution H instead.

    The published time may be short because Tri-X 400 and HC-110 can very easily work together to really support the high tones with a very straight, if not upswept, characteristic curve. For your average situation, it might be a bit too much high-tone density and contrast for the average print.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  4. #4
    DutchShooter's Avatar
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    Im doing tri-x for 10 (EI 250) to 13 min (EI400) in dilution H. So about half that time would be OK for dilution B.

  5. #5
    ann
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    that time changed a few years ago when Kodak made some changes in the film, perhaps ron can chime in here.
    anyway, at the time those folks who had been using that comb for a long time went a bit "crazy", trying to get someone at kodak to admit there had been a typo error of some kind.

    the long and short they kept their old times, which had been 7 minutes. they meaning, user, not kodak.

    in our lab we use 6 to 6.30 depending on the student, as we found 7 much too long and of course the "new time " to be unacceptable.
    Last edited by ann; 07-25-2009 at 05:14 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    http://www.aclancyphotography.com

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by ann View Post
    that time changed a few years ago when Kodak made some changes in the film, perhaps ron can chime in here.
    anyway, at the time those folks who had been using that comb for a long time went a bit "crazy", trying to get someone at kodak to admit there had been a typo error of some kind.

    the long and short they kept their old times, which had been 7 minutes.

    in our lab we use 6 to 6.30 depending on the student, as we found 7 much too long and of course the "new time " to be unacceptable.
    Well, I guess that explains it. I had not used Tri-X 400 in some time until recently, with the introduction of Arista Premium 400, and I did not even know that there was a recent change in the emulsion.

    I have settled on developing the Arista Premium for 9:00 in dilution H. As we all know, published times are only good on average, which means that there will always be variation individual to individual.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 07-25-2009 at 06:45 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  7. #7
    ann
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    again, Ron can give us more specific, but i seem to remember they (kodak) had to or did move the production to another location and had to make some changes for environmental reasons.

    this was a few years ago and i don't remember the details, but do remember all the grinding of teeth on various sites as to the time changes.
    http://www.aclancyphotography.com

  8. #8
    DanielStone's Avatar
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    thanks guys, and gal ! i have never heard of dilution H before now, but coming this monday at school, I'll have to give it a try.

    so, just to clear up the clutter in my mind on this issue, dilution H is 2x the dilution (1:14 from stock solution compared to B's 1:7 from stock solution).

    if so, please let me know on this thread, I'm watching it, waiting for answers



    thanks


    -dan


  9. #9

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    H is the same amount of stock as B, but in twice the total volume of working solution...or half the amount of stock as B in the same total volume of working solution. It is 1:15, not 1:14. Since these are a ratios (that name the number of "parts"), not fractions (that name specific portions of a total), you add the numbers on either side for the total number of parts (16). 1:15 expressed in fractional terms would be 1/16 stock, 15/16 water. Basically, speaking in ratios, you are saying, "This many parts of one ingredient, and this many parts of another make this many total parts", while with fractions, you are saying, "This portion of the total volume is how much volume of this ingredient there is". Six of one, half dozen of the other, but it still must be understood to get the dilutions correct.

    To be able to fully develop, make sure that no matter what dilution you are using, you have at least a certain amount of syrup for each 80 sq-in. of film. Kodak recommends 6, and says that 4 of these are actually used up in the development of that surface area of emulsion with average exposures. I have found that 3mL (and that taking half of ANY manufacturer's recommended minimum) fully develops a film just fine when doing normal development.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 07-25-2009 at 08:58 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  10. #10
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Dilution H is 1/2 as strong as dilution B - if you have 256 ml of dilution B just add another 256 ml of water and you will have 512 ml of dilution H.

    But....

    You referred to stock solution - that consists of 1 part concentrate and three parts water.

    To dilute that stock solution to dilution B, you mix 1 part stock with 7 parts of water. By doing that, you end up with 1 part concentrate together with 31 parts water for a total of 32 parts.

    Whereas:

    To dilute that stock solution to dilution H, you mix 1 part stock with 15 parts of water. By doing that, you end up with 1 part concentrate together with 63 parts water for a total of 64 parts.

    If you start out with 6 ml of concentrate (or 24 ml of stock) then after dilution you will end up with:

    1) 192 ml of working solution dilution B, or
    2) 384 ml of working solution dilution H.

    if those volumes are smaller than you need, just scale them up appropriately.

    Matt

    P.S. the mounts actually are more intuitive if you use (US) ounces, pints and quarts

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