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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Lindan View Post
    That's rather a big assumption, Sandy.


    .


    No, not an assumption at all. My comment was based on observations that resulted form actual use and comparison testing of D76, Xtol and Pyrocat, and a number of other developers as well. I would pretty much bet the farm that one will not get better results with D76 and Xtol than with Pyrocat-HD with Fuji Acros. Which was the subject of the question of the OP.

    Have you actually compared Acros with Pyrocat-HD, D76 and Xtol? I am betting that you have not.

    Sandy King
    Last edited by sanking; 07-27-2009 at 08:02 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #12
    Nicholas Lindan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    Have you actually compared Acros with Pyrocat-HD, D76 and Xtol? I am betting that you have not.
    You are right there. But I have tried Acros and didn't think much of it. And I have tried Pyrocat-HD and it didn't suit me either - I find staining developers in general to be a PITA and inconsistent in results, so that shouldn't be any surprise.

    That the combination would be something I like, well, who knows, it might. But common sense would say it wouldn't. I'm not going to go chasing a holy grail of developer/film combinations - I have done enough of that in my life with the same result as other grail chasers: a lot of wasted time and effort leading to nothing except the occasional delusion. Instead, I have found a juice glass that doesn't leak and it's good enough for me.

    Not everyone likes the same things in a negative. I have had negatives thrust at me with words of "Isn't it marvelous?" and thought I have never seem anything so awful. I am sure there are others who would react similarly to my work.

    FWIW - the OP was looking for something to 'standardize on', and my comment is I have found the 'standard developers' to be a good choice for standardization, as have many million (now thousand, or hundred..) others. They may be boring, but in general, they are the ones that work the best in the majority of situations.

    I have seen lovely work by people who use Pyro. But it's not the common choice and I found it doesn't suit me either. Jeff may find it is just the thing he is looking for, or he may not. Horses for courses.

    As to the impact of the developer on the final image - I have never looked at a photograph and thought "That would have been lovely if it had only been developed in Wimpole's Q-44."

    And as to the frustration of getting people to try something new...tell me about it.
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Lindan View Post
    You are right there. But I have tried Acros and didn't think much of it. And I have tried Pyrocat-HD and it didn't suit me either - I find staining developers in general to be a PITA and inconsistent in results, so that shouldn't be any surprise.
    You are entitled to your opinion, but to keep things in perspetive the question of the OP was specifically about Fuji Acros in Pyrocat-HD, to which I responsed with specific development information, and the comment that Acros + Pyrocat-HD it is one that I personally use and find to be an outstanding combination.

    Since you have no specific knowledge of this combination, and indeed we now know that you don't even like Acros, I don't know why anyone should be interested in your general opinion of standard developers. I have lots of opinions also but when I don't have specific knowledge I usually find it more appropriate to just keep my opinions to myself.

    Sandy King
    Last edited by sanking; 07-28-2009 at 09:42 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #14

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    Agreed, Pyro can be as smooth as butter but you gotta churn the cream first to get it.
    I brake for fixer!

  5. #15
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    The professional, as well as the old stager in the amateur ranks, uses pyro. The novices uses one of the many newer developers.
    From Amateur Work Magazine, Vol 3. 1904.

    Just couldn't help, but throw this in. Pyro was the standard developer of the 19th and early 20th centuries. It wasn't until the age of Kodakery that people began switching in droves to the non-pyro developer because it was *easier* (does this sound like any contemporary change in photography?).

    Or you can ask Steve Anchell what he thinks about pyro:

    There is nothing that can compare to a full tonal scale black-and-white negative developed in pyro. Negatives developed in pyro exhibit exceptionally sharp edges and delicate highlight detail. That does not mean you cannot get superior results using conventional formulas, it simply means that a properly developed pyro negative is as good as it gets.
    Steve Anchell, The Darkroom Cookbook, 2000, pg 68.

    Just to shout out some pro-pyro propaganda.

    I'm going to try Acros in Pyrocat-HD using semi-stand tonight for the first time. Sandy, I'm curious as to why I would choose to go with either two-bath or one bath. To give specifics: I'm developing 120 Acros rated @50. The images were made with a Rolleiflex and the negatives will be scanned to make digital negatives. I'm just unsure as to the benefits or drawbacks of going with the two-bath vs. the one-bath and as you have experiential knowledge of both of these (120 Acros @50 in single and two-bath Pyrocat-HD for scanning) I wonder what you could share.
    Let's see what I've got in the magic trash can for Mateo!

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  6. #16
    Shawn Dougherty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfTales View Post
    Agreed, Pyro can be as smooth as butter but you gotta churn the cream first to get it.
    You have no idea how appropriate this comment is considering who made the OP!!!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Dougherty View Post
    You have no idea how appropriate this comment is considering who made the OP!!!
    - Jeff (& sometimes Eva, too) - http://www.jeffbannow.com

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I'm going to try Acros in Pyrocat-HD using semi-stand tonight for the first time. Sandy, I'm curious as to why I would choose to go with either two-bath or one bath. To give specifics: I'm developing 120 Acros rated @50. The images were made with a Rolleiflex and the negatives will be scanned to make digital negatives. I'm just unsure as to the benefits or drawbacks of going with the two-bath vs. the one-bath and as you have experiential knowledge of both of these (120 Acros @50 in single and two-bath Pyrocat-HD for scanning) I wonder what you could share.
    Let me know how it comes out!
    - Jeff (& sometimes Eva, too) - http://www.jeffbannow.com

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I'm going to try Acros in Pyrocat-HD using semi-stand tonight for the first time. Sandy, I'm curious as to why I would choose to go with either two-bath or one bath. To give specifics: I'm developing 120 Acros rated @50. The images were made with a Rolleiflex and the negatives will be scanned to make digital negatives. I'm just unsure as to the benefits or drawbacks of going with the two-bath vs. the one-bath and as you have experiential knowledge of both of these (120 Acros @50 in single and two-bath Pyrocat-HD for scanning) I wonder what you could share.
    The major benefit of two-bath Pyrocat is that you don't have to worry about blowing out the highlights so it is a good choice if you have shot scenes of different contrast on the same roll. The method also assures very good acutance as it favors the creation of edge effects. The disadvantage is that you have to use a lot more of the solution.

    You will get abou the same type of acutance with the 1:1:100 dilution uisng four agitaiton cycles. This leaves the film to rest a long time between cycles, which assures local exhaustion of the developer which favors acutance. If you are developing to scan you should be fine if you keep total development time to 12 minutes or less at 70F.

    Sandy

  10. #20

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    I actually don't know but I'm happily amused

    Great stuff Sandy - very helpful!! Many thanks indeed to your dedicated research.
    I brake for fixer!

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