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  1. #11

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    I've had emulsion lifting off on Fomatone 532 II when processed through 40ºC lith developer using tongs.

    Tom

  2. #12
    Marco B's Avatar
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    I would take all the advices given here by all the people, and cut out all the unnecessary process steps, it will save you time as well.
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Aislabie View Post
    Help/advice required please.

    Sadly, I have managed to ruin two Ilford MGFB prints in the process of Gold Toning them.

    Patches of emulsion have flaked off the paper base, on one print it just looks like it has a bad case of dandruff but on the other some of the flakes are larger – up to 5 x5 mm

    It hasn’t happened to most of my prints I have Gold Toned – but as luck would have it only on the 2 final prints I made of one particular photograph.

    I have been printing for a competition – so have been drying, examining and selecting the most suitable prints before proceeding to the next stage of the process.


    MGFM dev’d in MG Dev - 3mins
    Ilfostop @ 1+39 – 30sec
    Hypam Fixer @ 1+4 – 60sec
    Rinse under running cold tap – 60 sec
    Sodium Sulphite @ 20g/L – 10min
    Wash in cold water in an Archival Washer - 10 mins
    Air Dried

    Prints selected

    Soaked and held in a tray of 20C water – 20+mins
    Harman Selenium Toner @ 1+6 – 8 mins
    Rinse
    Sodium Sulphite @ 20g/L – 10min
    Wash in cold water in an Archival Washer - 10 mins
    Air Dried

    Prints selected

    Soaked and held in a tray of 20C water – 10+mins
    Tetenal Gold Toned – 10mins
    Rinse
    Hypam Fixer @ 1+4 – 60 sec
    Rinse
    Rinse under running cold tap – 60 sec
    Sodium Sulphite @ 20g/L – 10min
    Wash in cold water in an Archival Washer - 10 mins
    Air Dried


    Can anyone spot a flaw in my process?

    I cannot understand where I have gone wrong, as most prints have been exposed to the same process but were problem free

    Thanks

    Martin
    Hello Martin
    Just picked up on this thread. I should say first that I haven't ever experienced the problem you describe although I use MG IV & MGWT a lot with both gold & selenium (& other) toners. So I can't add any helpful advise as to the cause. I suggest to speak to Ilford with full details, batch No. etc and I know they will take this seriously and be as helpful as poss.

    As to your technique, it covers all eventualities most thoroughly and seems well thought out as a belt & braces approach.
    Most people do not refix after direct gold toning and although there is a reason for doing so it is rather 'small print' stuff about breaking down ligands etc. You would be safe in omitting this, but no harm in being over thorough ;-) as it is unlikely (IMO) to have caused your problem but film strength hypam is not necessary at this stage.

    The sulphite bath after Se is wise because a large (not trace) component of Se toner is amm or sod (varies) thiosulphate (fixer).

    Guillaume is absolutely correct that a full wash before Se isn't necessary - but you are only washing 10 mins after sulphite and I don't think reducing that to a few minutes will affect your results in any way.
    The sulphite or a hypo clear type bath is a good idea after an acid fix before SE toner unless the Se is mixed with hypo clear instead of water (which yours is not) to avoid risk of staining by taking an acidic print into Se toner (marginally controversial I agree but safe rather than sorry - I have seen horrid staining from going from acid to KRST).

    There are aesthetic and valid reasons for using both gold and Se together, but this should not cause the emulsion lifting your report. I use both in combination all the time in my work and on my workshops and I have yet to see it so I suggest you speak with Ilford.
    Tim

  4. #14

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    Just come across this thread having come in from the darkroom to try and find out why the emulsion has lifted on some of my prints. I'm not trying to hijack this thread but maybe putting two cases together there may be an answer.
    Firstly, will the other prints in the batch be ok when dry?
    My process is similar to Martins only not as 'belt & braces'. I use Foma 532II paper, PQ developer, ilfostop and alkali fix - all to recommended times and washed for 40mins. I did, however, drop some prints in a water bath after fixing awaiting transfer to the washer. They were in there for 20+ mins (can't remember if they were the ones that lifted but I think so).
    I noticed the emulsion lifted after pre-soaking before toning, not after toning. Did you notice yours lifting at this stage?
    Joe

  5. #15

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    Your experience is really odd. I can't see anything in your process that would cause the emulsion to flake off, and I rather doubt that it could be the toners, which are respected commercial products. Of course, it is possible to have got a bad batch of something. More likely it is some sort of contamination. I have never used selenium toning before gold toning. Gold toner renders the print quite stable for archival purposes. Unless you are trying for some special tone effect, I would recommend against it. But if Tim Rudman says it's OK, I'm sure it is.

  6. #16

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    Has happened to me too on several occasions...

    It has happened to me several times during the final wash and only with Ilford Warm Tone Variable Contrast paper.


    It is my belief that it is caused by washing the prints in water above 80 degree F = 27 degree C.


    I know it is about to happen when the paper feels "gummy"...


    However, I am not sure yet why, and am looking forward to someone else responding to this thread...



    Per Volquartz
    http://www.pervolquartz.com

  7. #17

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    I've had this happen with 2 bath lith prints on fotospeed lith paper. After pot. ferri. bleaching and gold toning and I don't know why. It was at college in a busy shared darkroom so quality was always hard to control.

  8. #18
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    The only thing I notice that would be odd , is the 60 second fix rather than a longer fix for FB paper.

  9. #19
    Martin Aislabie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    The only thing I notice that would be odd , is the 60 second fix rather than a longer fix for FB paper.
    Bob, I am only following Ilfords instructions for Hypam at 1+4 - http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/...0213591255.pdf

    Martin

  10. #20
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Martin
    My minimum time in a two bath fix is 1 1/2min in first and 1 1/2 min in second and I usually stretch it out to 4-5 min.. I am using hypam 1:4 as well.
    I didn't know that Ilford recommends 60 seconds for fibre paper.

    This is probably not the cause of the emulsion lifting , just a time that t struck me as odd.

    Bob
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Aislabie View Post
    Bob, I am only following Ilfords instructions for Hypam at 1+4 - http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/...0213591255.pdf

    Martin

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