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  1. #1

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    Liquid Dektol compared to D-72 / powdered Dektol

    Directed to those that have used both products: Is liquid Dektol equivalent to powered Dektol or D-72? As the liquid concentrate dilutes 1+9 whereas the powdered developer dilutes 1+1 to 1+3, I would think not. Presumably a hydroxide is substituted for the carbonate.

    Liquid Dektol: http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/kod...conc-602-p.asp

    Tom

  2. #2
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Sort of, but not quite.

    D72/Dektol is an MQ developer, using Carbonate as the alkali, while Liquid Dektol is a Dimezine/Hydroquinone developer and to allow greater concentration uses Carbonate/Hydroxide instead, this is common with commercial liquid paper developers.

    Until Kodak dropped paper manufacture Liquid Dektol was called Polymax developer, but with no Polymax B&W paper the name has changed in Europe.

    In practice it's similar to Bromophen and PQ Universal, it's actual warmth will depend on how much Benzotriazole or similar it incorporates

    Ian

  3. #3

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    hi tom

    i used to use solutol ( solutek ? )
    liquid d-72 all the time.
    this was when i was using powdered dektol often as well ..
    while, as ian stated, they are different developers
    it worked exactly like dektol ( as far as i could tell ) ..
    and i used it with ilford, agfa and kodak papers.
    maybe the differences were subtle, but i wasn't able to tell prints apart that
    i had made in dektol and the reprinted in solute(ek/ol).

    i haven't used either developer in years though ...

    have fun!
    john

  4. #4
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Agfa used to make powdered and liquid versions of some of the Neutol range, the powdered ones were MQ based and the liquid PQ. In addition most liquid print developers Ilford, Kodak & Agfa usually use Potassium rather than Sodium Sulphite & Carbonate, this is another factor which affects the warmth of tone, so in general the liquid versions give warmer tones, unless specifically formulated to give cold tones.

    Ian

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Agfa used to make powdered and liquid versions of some of the Neutol range, the powdered ones were MQ based and the liquid PQ. In addition most liquid print developers Ilford, Kodak & Agfa usually use Potassium rather than Sodium Sulphite & Carbonate, this is another factor which affects the warmth of tone, so in general the liquid versions give warmer tones, unless specifically formulated to give cold tones.

    Ian
    Thanks for clarifying that the developers are distinct. Recently I have been using Fotospeed PD-5 which claims to give a slightly warm tone; so I was speculating as to whether I could achieve a colder tone via liquid Dektol. However, even with fiddling around with various developers, I have found the most effective cold tone via gold toning warmtone paper (Adox Premium Variotone, and Fomatone) developed in a dilute solution of ID-78 (1+7).


    Tom

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    One other concern is your paper. Some papers react more strongly to differences in developers than do others. Generally speaking, the papers I use most often (VC RC papers, such as Agfa MCP 310 RC or Foma Variant III) don't seem to produce much difference no matter what I use for a developer -- D-72, DS-14, DS-15, or whatever. I haven't done much testing of papers I use more rarely (such as the graded FB Slavich Bromoportrait), but I suspect they'd show more effect from the developer.

  7. #7
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    Arista.EDU Ultra VC RC papers change tone rather radically depending on how old my dektol working solution is.
    f/22 and be there.

  8. #8

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    I played with liquid Dektol, but fell in love with D72 as a home brew, using Anchell's 'Darkroom Cookbook' recipie. Warmth (or lack of!) can be affected by exposure and dilution and are very much related to paper in use. Good workaday dev, and cheap and easy to brew. Excellent in combination with D163 (gen, softer, warmer) for two-bath paper dev (control of true warmtone papers particularly!) As with any dev, paper or film, all parameters are movable and any 'standards' are purely personal. Experimentation will often reveal things you didn't know your materials could do... And you might even like it! ^_^

    While now irrelevant, Tet Eukobrom+ Forte Polygrade gave the coldest un-toned results I ever got.

  9. #9

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    Previous experiments with image tone using other developers have lead me to believe that a process sequence involving toning is generally a more effective way to control image tone than relying on the paper developer exclusively. e.g. If I process a warmtone emulsion in a fairly cool tone developer, when that print is placed in selenium toner, the warm characteristic will re-appear, and more neutral papers may not respond that dramatically to developer variance anyway.

    Tom

  10. #10

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    Um, I think this depends what you intend to do and how you want to get there, which is all part of the joy of the darkroom!

    Personally I categorise toning other than very light selenium for archive purposes as special effects, and prefer to control image colour through the properties of individual paper/exposure/developer techniques. That's my preference though, and probably reflects that when I was first learning printing all my teachers were very heavy on the toning, always starting out with neutral images. When I discovered what was actually possible, I became entranced by the possibilities.

    I would agree that toning gives more general case control over a variety of papers, and would also readily agree that proper warmtone papers with their super-finely-divided silver content can generally be relied upon as better 'toners'. However, assuming that your paper is well cared for and your developers consistent then the only other factor that should be affecting image colour on a given warmtone paper is the degree of exposure given. Warmer papers tend to be slower, usually at least +1 stop.

    I don't have dev oxidation issues due to mixing fresh from raw components, and my dev tray is thermostatically maintained at the temperature I've chosen; usually between 21 and 24 c based on paper and maybe what I want to do to it. This is purely for purposes of predictability though, and does allow me to do away with troublesome thermometers in the tray once everything's set up and known working. As a bonus, I like the rocking motion of the dev tray floating in the bath! I got the habit after spending far too long lithing... ^_^

    Ultimately both approaches can give you a cold print, but one way doesn't use a gold toner. On the other hand, gold's a good archival print treatment. Skipping the tone stage would be quicker, but do you need to get in special papers or devs? Any one of these I'd say was good reason for one way or the other, depending on circumstance.

    Another way of looking at things is that starting out with a given image colour gives you more space to manouver when you do begin toning! As I say though, all personal preference!
    Last edited by Tref Hopkins; 08-18-2009 at 08:38 AM. Click to view previous post history.

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