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  1. #31
    ann
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    thanks for the insight. Thought that was a strange comment, but then.......

    As an aside, my cats love to lick photos. Guess since they can't get to the grass they will try anything.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky
    Donald said,

    I understand your statement about the archivalness (is that a word?) of a print...but the way that I feel about it...Who the hell really cares? As long as it looks good enough for someone to give me some money. By the time that the print "goes south" I will have gone "down".
    Funny, that's exactly the same philosophy that Kodak had with color prints in the 1980s and even probably today. If it lasts 'til it gets out the door. Perfect. If you want to show it to anyone in the future, put the damn thing in the freezer, and whenever company comes over simply thaw it out.

    Michael, I figure "why reinvent the wheel"...Heck I will probably be gone about 5 minutes ahead of Kodak. Of course the end for them seems nearer all the time. I like the freezer idea. It will impart to those who I am trying to impress that my prints are not "hot of the press". Another subliminal impartation of value and I can use all the help I can get.

    Donald said

    If too many prints are made archival there will be no depletion of work already done and let's face it there will be a saturation point.
    Oh I get it, you're just trying to drive up the price of you work through attrition.

    Michael, you've got it. It is called the scarcity principle...kinda like the oil and gasoline thing. Who said that Arabs and Germans are stupid. I am the latter by the way.


    Donald said,

    My cat does not have a particular affinity for the prints...she just yawns when I show her my latest and greatest
    Donald try not feeding the little bugger for a few days and see if that improves his/her attutude a little.

    Michael, I tried that but then she went and ate the fish in the tank...I can buy tuna cheaper then salt water fish. I am really fearful for the Koi in the pond. Any other ideas?

    Michael

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by ann
    thanks for the insight. Thought that was a strange comment, but then.......

    As an aside, my cats love to lick photos. Guess since they can't get to the grass they will try anything.
    Thats probably due to your cats having an addiction to selenium...

  4. #34
    ann
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    no these are from my once every year or so roll of color prints.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by ann
    no these are from my once every year or so roll of color prints.
    Darn,

    I was sure that had to be the reason.

  6. #36

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    Michael and Donald, you need to give us more warning the next time you two do this....

    I have not had near enough to drink to follow this discussion...

    Sean, can we have a special Michael and Donald alert added to warn us before we enter a discussion?


    :upsidedo:
    Mike C

    Rambles

  7. #37
    lee
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    I am under the impression that there is more selenium in shampoo than there is in Kodak's Se toner. The smell is not selenium but a small amount of sodium thyosulfate. That is fixer. Like Don I have been toning in this stuff for nearly 30 years and I don't think I have any issues with it.

    Your mileage may very,
    lee\c

  8. #38
    David R Munson's Avatar
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    Just one thought - if you find yourself experimenting with various combinations of dilution and different papers, don't forget to give a few prints an ironman toning to see what happens. Mix it strong, like 1:10, and just leave the print in there a while. I mean a while, too. Go have a sandwich and come back. This is how I found that AGFA 111 tones gorgeously in KRST 1:10, especially if you tone it for 20 minutes or more.

  9. #39
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    One point that has not been mentioned is that the darker areas of a print will tone before the lighter areas which clearly has a bearing on the length of time the print is left in the selenium solution. I never tone by time, always by inspection for a very low key print will take selenium before a very high key. I frequently tone in selenium for up to 4 hours a follow this with a wash and several hours in gold. I'm looking for a significant colour change when I do this and I don't sit and rock the tray for the whole period, I do another job and regularly have a look at what's happening.

    Phil Davis also wrote an interesting series of articles a few years ago on the effects of selenium toning and one of his conclusions was that extended toning reduced contrast. I cannot recall the papers tested or whether the change in contrast was consistent with all papers the papers he tested. I do have them somewhere in the mountain of photographic bumf that is overloading the shelves in my office and if I can find them I'll post his results. The papers were published by Fred Newman of The View Camera Store when his business was Darkroom Innovations.

  10. #40

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    The only thing I could add is try not to over fix.
    One minute in fresh Ilford Rapid fix at 1/4 dillution is all you need.
    If you over fix you just give yourself washing and possible staining problems. The other thing is that an over-fixed print may refuse to react with the selnium toner.

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