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  1. #11
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Bethe,

    I have had similar problems. I solved the problem by going to a more normal agitation regime and switching to stainless steel tank and reels. Don't know if the tank had anything to do with it, but the problems went away. You've switched to stainless steel, which leaves agitation.

    Agitation. You want to fully invert the tank when you agitate, just tipping it front and back is not going to replace the 'spent' developer that's in contact with the emulsion, your developer needs some velocity to move over the emulsion. Agitation is basically to replace the developer that has already worked on the emulsion for a while, spending its capacity to transform the silver.
    Invert the tank fully for 30s at the beginning and then you can slow down to 10s every two minutes or so, but every time you agitate, make sure you get that liquid moving inside the tank.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

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  2. #12
    goldenimage's Avatar
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    120 acros w/d76 is what i use, 11 min, i agitate first 30 sec continuously, then 5 sec every 30 sec thereafter, when i fix i fix for 10 min, agitating 30 sec every minute. when you develope try to get at least 3 to 4 inversions during the 5 sec. turn that tank upside down, treat it like it owes you money. : ) very good composition on that image btw. good luck

  3. #13

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    I probably concur with all the other comments about this being an agitation problem due to lack of randomness.

    However, just to make sure it isn't a fogging issue, do you see any variation in the base+fog level in the portions of the film BETWEEN images. Since this area shouldn't have received any exposure it should be sensitive only to fixation and not development and/or agitation.

    Denis K

  4. #14
    Anscojohn's Avatar
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    Why this would begin happening all of a sudden for you is beyond me. Perhaps that film is agitation sensitive??

    Given the appearance of that neg, my guess is insufficient agitation. Just tipping the tank changes the solution on the edges, but not througout the whole roll.

    A medium-gentle tipping over the tank is the way I do it. With just enough "vigah" that the SS reels make a clicking sound about like the metalic sound one gets when popping open a can of beer.
    John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

  5. #15
    winger's Avatar
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    It's definitely not fogging and it's not loose paper allowing light in from the edges. Which does leave agitation.
    I am inverting it when I tip back and forth - I'm just not going in circles or such. I also turn the tank so the next agitation is in a different spot. This is just irritating because when I had the issue before (with the plastic reels), I was told there was too much agitation and to cut back to once a minute instead of every 30 sec.

    I have an empty film back for the Hassie, so I'm going to load a roll in that and shoot mostly light subjects that I don't care as much about. When I develop that, I'll agitate more vigorously and see what happens. So swirling isn't going to make it worse? I thought that made it go faster at the edges and cause it to be worse.

  6. #16

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    I suggest a simple experiment. Fill a clear glass jar to the top with water. Very gently put a drop of food coloring in the water and quickly put the lid on. In the first two or three inversion cycles you can see how little the dye particles really move. Now do it with the jar half full. Now imagine the developer confined between the layers of film and you can make up your own mind about whether you're getting sufficient agitation or not.

  7. #17

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    I had problems with increased edge density forever, though not that extreme, and I had to tweak and tweak my agitation methods, tanks, etc for awhile before I got rid of it. And even then, if I do anything varying from the usual, it will show up quickly (though I do use reduced agitation with an 8 reel tank though, which is sorta asking for it to begin with).

    I too suggest not loading a reel or two in the tank to leave a larger air space for the chemicals to really move around, and also to look into the figure 8 style inversion, which has worked for me. Finally, a good bit of info I was given that further helped me reduce the problem was that uneven development mostly takes place in the first 30 seconds to minute of the development process. I got rid of the pouring step and now lower the reels into the tank; this step, with an 8 reel tank, helped a great deal.

  8. #18
    David William White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by winger View Post
    I am using 1:9. I fix for about 4 minutes using rapid fix (it says use 2-4 minutes).
    I used to agitate every 30 seconds and also got this and was told that was too much agitation. I was also told that side to side was how to avoid it moving more by the reels and therefore overdeveloping on the edges.
    I only have the one tank for 120 - should I get a larger one or try to measure exactly so I leave some air in this one?
    Is that Ilford Rapid Fixer? Film strength is 1+4. 1+9 is for paper, so you'd be under-fixing. Underfixing is common and eventually happens as your fixer saturates.

    Best to confirm/deny underfixing by refixing pronto, then move on to other hypotheses. If true, you'll get your negatives back, so this is the sensible action item.

    Just throw the film in a bowl of fixer for another 5 minutes, then rewash & rescan.

    Fingers crossed.

  9. #19
    winger's Avatar
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    Is that Ilford Rapid Fixer? Film strength is 1+4. 1+9 is for paper, so you'd be under-fixing. Underfixing is common and eventually happens as your fixer saturates.
    Sorry for the brevity - I use the developer 1:9 (someone asked if I was using it 1:14) - the fix is 1:4 and it was fresh.

    I may also try the fill the tank first and drop the loaded reel into it in the dark method. I just have to make sure I can find it without knocking it over in the dark. Is there a youTube video or such of the figure 8 method? That's what I think I have in mind for my more vigorous attempt later.

  10. #20
    papagene's Avatar
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    Bethe - I had a similar problem a while back with 120 film in stainless reels. The problem was that I was not cleaning my reels after the foto-flo bath, just rinsing them. I got high density areas on the sides of the next set of negs developed.
    The solution was to use an old toothbrush and some Ivory (bar) soap and give the reels a quick cleaning. Never had the problem again.
    YMMV

    Good luck.

    gene
    gene LaFord


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