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  1. #1

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    Did my first 5x7 negs today in pyrocat 2:2:100 in trays with constant agitation. I read somewhere that one neg in the soup would cause problems but two was good. That was what I did, but did not know how to do intermitant agitation with them on top of each other so I just shuffled them bottom to top. But now I realize I have no idea what to look for.

    There is ample detail in the shadows where I wanted minimum detail zone 2 and there seems to be pretty good seperation between the highs and mids. The scene was an SBR of 5 and I am using BPF 200. I do not see any stain at all. I fixed in claytons non-hardening fixer for seven minutes. Did I do it too long, or is this not good stuff? I got it at photomark in phoenix because the other stuff they had was kodak rapid fix with hardener.

    I do not have a densitometer and if I lay it on a white sheet of paper under a bright light I see white paper only in the deepest shadows is that normal? these things are pretty dense.

    I must say I like the largish negs. I wish I had something to contact it on or a scanner that worked with this format.

    I kinda feel like a kid in a candy store but has no idea where to start eating.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark
    The scene was an SBR of 5 and I am using BPF 200. I do not see any stain at all. I fixed in claytons non-hardening fixer for seven minutes. Did I do it too long, or is this not good stuff? I got it at photomark in phoenix because the other stuff they had was kodak rapid fix with hardener.

    I do not have a densitometer and if I lay it on a white sheet of paper under a bright light I see white paper only in the deepest shadows is that normal? these things are pretty dense.
    You don't mention time or temperature of development. Also, can I assume that you are developing your negatives for an alternative process that would require a negative with a fairly high CI (high contrast)? I ask the question because I only recommend the 2:2:100 dilution of Pyrocat-HD for alternative processes. If you use this dilution with negatives destined for silver printing (except AZO) it will give to much contrast in most lighting conditions.

    Also, BPF is a good film for silver gelatin printing (because it has a lot of latitude for exposure and development) but it is very hard to get enough contrast out of it for alternative printing. In fact, I will state categorically that BPF will not give sufficient contrast with an SBR of 5 in any developer if the negative is intended for alternative printing.

    Sandy King

  3. #3

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    I developed for 23 minutes at 70ish degrees (One thermometer said 70 the other said 71) after a development test that visually seemed to move the contrast of my subject up one stop at least. My goal was palladium or kallitype.

    Kevin? Bostic(his name is on the mail they sent). said BPF was just fine for alt processes but did mention that Pyrocat might not be aggressive enough. Since those are the two items i had, pyrocat and BPF, that is what I used.

    Canyon De Chelly is not going anywhere so If I need to reshoot it I can.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark
    I developed for 23 minutes at 70ish degrees My goal was palladium or kallitype.

    Kevin? Bostic(his name is on the mail they sent). said BPF was just fine for alt processes but did mention that Pyrocat might not be aggressive enough.

    Kevin at B&S is right in that BPF is fine for alternative process work, *if you are in a lighting condition of SBR of about 6.5 or higher.*

    But, if you hope to get enough contrast from BPF in a lighting condition of SBR 6 or lower my assessement is that *you can't get there from here.* In other words, there is *no* developer, however aggressive, that will produce enough contrast with BPF in low contrast lighting for an alternative process like kallitype or palladium that require a negative density range of about log 1.7. Period, regardless of how long you develop. Not with ABC Pyro 1:1:1:7, not with D-19 straight, not with D-11.

    BPF has gamma infinity at about CI .93 but beyond that you just gain density with longer development. With BPF and Pyrocat 2:2:100 you reach gamma infinity of about CI .92 with about sixteen minutes of development. Further development increases overall density but not contrast.


    Sandy King

  5. #5
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    If you want higher contrast with Pyrocat-HD, try the bleach-redevlop trick using a rehalogenating bleach like that you would use for the bleach-redevelopment sepia toning. Redevelop to completion in Pyrocat or PMK. The result is increased stain image and thus increase in contrast for printing on the blue-UV sensitive materials as well as graded silver paper.

    This works even if you could not get higher contrast by direct development. Try it on a test neg if you don't believe me, or even if you do.
    Gadget Gainer

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer
    If you want higher contrast with Pyrocat-HD, try the bleach-redevlop trick using a rehalogenating bleach like that you would use for the bleach-redevelopment sepia toning. Redevelop to completion in Pyrocat or PMK. The result is increased stain image and thus increase in contrast for printing on the blue-UV sensitive materials as well as graded silver paper..
    As I recall you published an article on this bleach-redevelop procedure a few years back in one of the national magazines, Darkroom Techniques perhaps. Is that article available online? If not, wonder if you might post here some of the details, such as bleach formula, bleaching time, etc. here. This procedure has the potential to be very useful with low contrast films such as BPF when they must be used in low contrast situations.

    Sandy

  7. #7

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    Better yet, if you use Sodium Hydroxide as the accelerator and development at 74º F you might get the extra humph you need for BPF, I would try this before the bleach and redevelopement route.

  8. #8

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    Sandy, you say that you only recommend a 2:2:100 dilution of Pyrocat HD for alternative processes, as it will result in too much contrast for enlarging.
    So far I've only used one batch of Pyrocat HD, which I scratch mixed. I began tray developing Bergger BPF 200 5x4 negatives taken in normal contrast lighting, in a 1:1:100 solution but could not get enough contrast even by increasing the developing time to 15 minutes. To get negatives that would print on a normal grade paper with my diffuser enlarger I ended up giving them 10 miutes in a 2:2:100 solution. This works fine for me.
    I had no phenidone when I mixed the brew so I used 2.5 grams of metol instead.Could this be the reason I'm getting less contrast than you would expect?
    I've also developed several rolls of new Tri X ( taken in bright sunny lighting ) for 10 minutes in the 2:2:100 solution and they too have come out with normal contrast.
    I should add that I am highly delighted with performance of the developer. Mamy thanks!

    Alan Clark

  9. #9

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    Sorry, I got the time wrong .I had to develop the Bergger 5x4 film for 15 minutes , not 10 minutes.

    Alan Clark

  10. #10
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    Hi Sandy:

    Since this thread is the closest that I have come across in order to relate to my question, I would also like some clarification regarding the inherent contrast of different films and the procedure of using Pyrocat-HD.

    I have read your articles on Post Factory, unblinkingeye.com, and have been reading posts on alt-photo-process-list about the subject. You have mentioned that HP5+, BPF as well as Fortepan 400 are not suitable for low-SBR situations.

    Is this only applicable when one is preparing negatives for alternative processes? When one is developing negatives for regular silver printing (I mean not AZO), those films perform sufficiently even in low-SBR situations with N-plus development?

    Another question is about procedure. If Pyrocat-HD is used with Jobo processor, you have recommend to add "0.3g/L of Sodium Sulfite to each liter for working solution." Does this mean I will add 0.3g to one litter of working solution? I simply cannot put the meaning of the above sentence into practice.

    If you can clarify these points, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and spending time on them.

    tsuyoshi
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