Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 68,686   Posts: 1,482,320   Online: 981
      
Page 1 of 7 1234567 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 63
  1. #1
    Flotsam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    S.E. New York State
    Posts
    3,221
    Images
    13
    Les,
    I remember a post that you made a while back where you asserted that the reason that fiber displays more of a dry down effect than RC paper is because FB shrinks as it dries, concentrating and darkening the tones. I looked for that thread and couldn't find it so I'm referring back to it in a new topic.

    Last night I was printing some snow pictures on FB with very delicate highlight tones. The lightest of which were absolutely indistinguishable from paper White while in solution but merely lifting the print and allowing it to drain slightly revealed a perceptable tone in these areas. Blotting the print surface increases the effect further. Of course this darkening continued as the prints completely dried but I was curious, since this effect can not be explained by shrinkage, what would you, as our resident drydown expert, say is the cause of the perceived darkening effect of simply lifting a wet print out of the fixer or water bath?
    That is called grain. It is supposed to be there.
    =Neal W.=

  2. #2
    Les McLean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Northern England on the Scottish border
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,610
    Neal

    Interesting post and experience. I think that the print in the developer is masked by the colour of the developer so perhaps that explains the difference in tonality when it is removed from the developer. With regard to the print looking darker when it is drained and blotted, I would suggest that you read Barnbaun on his theory of dry down or wet up as he calls it. I have his book and will dig it out and quote his comments.

    For what it is worth, I print my highlights quite light in tone and when the print is wet the highlights are paper base white but always dry down to the tone I want. I regularly test all papers that I use for dry down percentage and apply that using the drydown compensation facility in my RH Designs Stop Clock Pro Timer.

    I can assure you that the reason for drydown is because the paper shrinks as it dries and consequently gets darker. I confirmed that many years ago with the Ilford technical people when I was working with them when doing pre production field tests on Ilford Warmtone paper.

  3. #3
    Les McLean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Northern England on the Scottish border
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,610
    Since I made the first post I've read the section In Barnbaums book, "The Art Of Photography, an Approach to Personal Expression", a good reference book well worth the money. The section on "wet up" as Bruce calls it is too long to quote from so I will scan it and post it tomorrow. Bruce's opinion is virtually the opposite of mine but having said that, his prints are excellent with quite beautiful clean highlights that absolutely glow. I do not wish to sound arrogant or bigheaded but my prints also glow and I do everything that Bruce says is wrong in dealing with "drydown" as I call it.

    The main point that I wish to make is that the methods that we both use work for us so I will not say that Bruce is wrong and I'm right, I respect him too much to do that.

    I'll post Bruce's method tomorrow after I've scanned it and also briefly explain where we differ.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Düsseldorf, Germany
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    1,021
    Images
    1
    Here is an observation: Hardly any dry down with AZO paper.
    Francesco

  5. #5
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas, USA
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    2,895
    Images
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by Francesco
    Here is an observation: Hardly any dry down with AZO paper.
    Same with Kodak Polymax Fine Art, which is Big K's MG fiber paper. This is not just my observation but that of several others also. I was very surprised at how similar to Azo's characteristics this paper is, except in tonal scale of course.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama (Rocket City USA)
    Posts
    230
    Images
    6
    Neal,

    I don't know what Les and the others have experienced, but I find that Ilford MG fiber takes 2-3 days to fully dry down. Like Les, I print highlights very light, and somewhere in that 3rd day, those highlights come around.

    Doug

  7. #7
    Bruce Osgood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Brooklyn, N.Y. USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,404
    Images
    38
    SNIP
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Bennett
    Neal,

    I find that Ilford MG fiber takes 2-3 days to fully dry down.
    Doug
    end snip

    My experience too.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    6,242
    I have a question about this. Is the fact that the gelatin emulsion is wet and swollen during the processing in any way involved with the lighter appearance when wet then when dry? I don't know this to be the case but I wonder if it isn't involved. I could visualize that gelatin would be more transparent when wet then when dry. What are your thoughts about that?

    Apart from the dry down factor, I think that the glow of a print is directly related to local contrast. I asked Sandy King about that awhile back and he thought that was true as well.

  9. #9
    Flotsam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    S.E. New York State
    Posts
    3,221
    Images
    13
    Les,
    I didn't mean to give the impression that I was questioning your' attributing dry-down to emulsion shrinkage. It certainly makes sense and I accept this as an interesting piece of photographic knowledge. However it got me thinking, (a dangerous thing to do). I was wondering about the "damp down" effect in which a print will display tones while merely damp that aren't seen, in the same light, while floating in the fixer or water bath. I used to keep a slanted plastic board and a squeegee in my darkroom where I could place a wet print or test strip and wipe off the surface water in order to make a better judgement of where to go with it. You still have to make your compensations for further dry down but at least it will allow you to see whether you have achieved a delicate tone adjacent to a paper White.

    I will read the Barnbaum article and your commentary with great interest. Thanks.
    That is called grain. It is supposed to be there.
    =Neal W.=

  10. #10
    Flotsam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    S.E. New York State
    Posts
    3,221
    Images
    13
    Alex,
    That is exactly the paper that I was working with last night thanks to your recent post. These weren't very good negs to test out a new paper with but I loved working with SW again! They washed and dried nicely with only a moderate, loose curl that I could probably eliminate completely without too much effort if I wasn't going to drymount them. I don't mind saving a few bucks either. These Prints were flatly lit snow and about 90% of the area was in the VIII and IX zones. There was a definite drydown but I'll be interested to try it with more full toned prints and compare the dry down characteristics to Ilford FB MG. Thanks for the heads-up.
    That is called grain. It is supposed to be there.
    =Neal W.=

Page 1 of 7 1234567 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin