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Thread: RC-V-FB

  1. #1
    Bruce Osgood's Avatar
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    In the Pure-Silver NG the question of keeping properties of modern RC papers are felt to be on a par with FB papers by a lot of people. I feel the longevity of a print is not the only reason to use FB papers and have come to believe, without proof but simply NG chatter, that RC papers, other than Ilford & perhaps Seagull, have a developer incorporated into the emulsion. If this is true, and manufacturers recommended development time is 1 minute for RC papers, then the development of an image cannot be controlled and split development printing is folly.

    Where FB-VC papers have no such incorporation the chosen developer has a marked result on the image and a Hard developer followed by a Soft developer will make a difference.

    My feeling is that RC paper can not react to development as FB paper will. If the wet side of your darkroom is an important part of making an expressive print, then RC paper has no place in it--other than contact sheets or learning a negatives characteristics or printing post cards.

    If I am wrong I would like to know. I've been wrong before, it won't be the
    first time.

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    lee
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    Hi Bruce,
    I am of the opinion that not all RC papers are DI. That said I don't like the look for proofs or final prints os it is not an issue with me. Plus I am suspect of RC's archival properties.\

    lee\c

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    Flotsam's Avatar
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    I've recently used Ilford MG RC and the image pops up _fast_ in the dev. tray compared to any FB. It never even occured to me that it didn't have a developer incorporated.
    That is called grain. It is supposed to be there.
    =Neal W.=

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    Ole
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    Most RC papers are not DI.

    The "easy" way to ascertain this is to try lith printing - any DI will turn the image black immidiately as well as ruin the developer. This hasn't happened to me yet, although many RC papers simply fail to develop. Varycon has the same emulsion in RC and FB, as do MACO and Forte. I haven't tried others, although I can confirm that Ilford MG IV RC is one of the papers which simply don't develop.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

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    Funny cause I would have said it was they other way (assuming I'm reading you right). I find Ilford RC to develop extremely quick and my usual RC paper, Agfa, to develop slower (and be dependant on how used the developer is)

    I don't agree with your theory that an expressive print can't be done on RC paper. The development part of the process controls a small percentage of the end result.

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    In the Pure-Silver NG the question of keeping properties of modern RC papers are felt to be on a par with FB papers by a lot of people. I feel the longevity of a print is not the only reason to use FB papers and have come to believe, without proof but simply NG chatter, that RC papers, other than Ilford & perhaps Seagull, have a developer incorporated into the emulsion. If this is true, and manufacturers recommended development time is 1 minute for RC papers, then the development of an image cannot be controlled and split development printing is folly.

    Where FB-VC papers have no such incorporation the chosen developer has a marked result on the image and a Hard developer followed by a Soft developer will make a difference.

    My feeling is that RC paper can not react to development as FB paper will. If the wet side of your darkroom is an important part of making an expressive print, then RC paper has no place in it--other than contact sheets or learning a negatives characteristics or printing post cards.
    If I am wrong I would like to know. I've been wrong before, it won't be the
    first time.


    I think I would like to disagree on the assertion that RC papers are not appropriate for making an expressive print. I refer you to the book by Larry Bartlett and Jon Tarrant: Black and White Photographic Printing Workshop. There are excellent examples of expressive print making with RC papers in this book.

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    Looks like I screwed up the quote that I was trying to point out-------how in the world do you pick out only a piece of a thread to respond to?

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    David R Munson's Avatar
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    One can make very nice prints on RC paper. In fact, because of the faster developing times and easier handling of RC paper, you might get the feling from using them that it's easier to get a fine print on RC than on FB. However, try as hard as I might, I have never been able to get as fine a print on RC as on FB. There are certain tones that just don't want to come out of RC paper. I have done printing sessions where I have made the best print I can on my favorite AGFA fiber paper and then without moving the negative or changing anything, try to match the print on the RC equivalent of the same paper. I've never been able to get the RC to get on the same level as the FB in terms of print quality. And I've gone through over a hundred sheets of paper trying to do this.

    So yeah, for a quick print where the ultimate quality isn't critical, RC gets me by once in a while, but the vast majority of the time it's only fiber that can get me what I want.

  9. #9
    Flotsam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck1
    how in the world do you pick out only a piece of a thread to respond to?
    Leave the opening and closing quote tags and cut everything in between that you don't want, then type your response underneath.

    ie: (keep the opening square bracket)
    quote="Chuck1"]how in the world do you pick out only a piece of a thread to respond to?[/quote]
    That is called grain. It is supposed to be there.
    =Neal W.=

  10. #10
    Bruce Osgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck1

    I think I would like to disagree on the assertion that RC papers are not appropriate for making an expressive print. I refer you to the book by Larry Bartlett and Jon Tarrant: Black and White Photographic Printing Workshop. There are excellent examples of expressive print making with RC papers in this book.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Looks like I screwed up the quote that I was trying to point out-------how in the world do you pick out only a piece of a thread to respond to?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Not to worry. Just click on the "quote" bar and in the new window snip out whatever you don't want to include (addition by subtraction).

    As far as making an expressive print on RC paper I meant it cannot be done IF the chemical process of developing is a part of the expressive print process and especially with those papers that are DI. An expressive print can be made on ANY paper where chemistry is not a part of the creative/artistic process. Not all expressive prints MUST be on Fiber and not ALL expressive prints require selective development.

    I feel VC paper is VC because of reasons to do with pigments and emulsions that respond to Yellow filters as minus contrast and to Magenta as plus contrast and chemistry will enhance or detract from this. A paper that is DI'd or only requires 1 minute to reach full development is counter productive to my way of working an expressive print. But I wouldn't suggest my way is the only way or the best way.

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