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  1. #1
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    How to remove hardened fixer

    I used the search engine, but did find the right thread.

    What is the latest opinion on how to remove the hardened fixer residue on storage bottles?

    I tried warm water and also 25% vinegar, but neither worked very well.

    What has worked for you?
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  2. #2

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    I can look it up later if you can't find it, but I believe that the Kodak tray cleaner formula does a great job of cleaning everything. It has sulfuric acid and potassium permanganate in it I believe, and then finish off with a sodium sulfite solution.

  3. #3

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    Interesting Bill. Must not be a strong mixture, as sulphuric acid and potassium permanganate can be highly unstable and explosive!

  4. #4

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    I know. It is a Kodak formula, it is very dilute. Potassium permanganate and a lot of things make for lots of heat. Pouring a little glycerin into a small pile of Potassium permanganate makes for a very neat hot lave experiment.

    The Kodak tray cleaner is what I use for b&w and color bottle and tray cleaning, and it works very well. You just need to take precautions and work carefully to mix it up, as with most anything photographic or otherwise. Common Sense. I usually buy a quart of battery acid from the NAPA store, the P.P. from Home Depot. Keep them both inside double zip lock freezer bags and in separate small plastic paint cans outside. I've done so for years and never had any misfortune of an accident. I think IIRC the battery acid is about 56% acid. I don't think you can find anything that cleans as well.

  5. #5

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    Kodak TC-3

    Tray Cleaner

    Solution A
    Water 1 liter
    Potassium Permanganate 2 grams or about 1/4 tsp
    Sulfuric Acid 4 ml (photo grade) or 10 ml of battery acid

    Solution B
    Water 750 ml
    Sodium Bisulfite 30 grams
    Sodium Sulfite 30 grams
    Water To Make 1 liter

    Use solution A first, and then rinse with B. Final rinse in
    Tap water. I actually dilute A and B further, about 4
    parts water to 1 part a or b.

  6. #6
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    If the white stain is sulfur from decomposed fix, there is little that will dissolve it. I have had some success using 50% Sodium Hydroxide solution as a bottle rinse followed by a good water wash and a scrub with a bottle brush.

    Take great care with the Sodium Hydroxide as it generates a lot of heat when mixed with water or diluted.

    I have heard that some have had success using Di Methyl Formamide.

    PE
    Last edited by Photo Engineer; 10-24-2009 at 02:27 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: spelling

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by bill williams View Post
    I know. It is a Kodak formula, it is very dilute. Potassium permanganate and a lot of things make for lots of heat. Pouring a little glycerin into a small pile of Potassium permanganate makes for a very neat hot lave experiment.

    The Kodak tray cleaner is what I use for b&w and color bottle and tray cleaning, and it works very well. You just need to take precautions and work carefully to mix it up, as with most anything photographic or otherwise. Common Sense. I usually buy a quart of battery acid from the NAPA store, the P.P. from Home Depot. Keep them both inside double zip lock freezer bags and in separate small plastic paint cans outside. I've done so for years and never had any misfortune of an accident. I think IIRC the battery acid is about 56% acid. I don't think you can find anything that cleans as well.
    Someone gave me a small bottle of P.P.; I have yet to play with it. Looks like it could have lots of useful applications though. I did not realize it was sold at Home Depot. Where would I find it there? Is it sold as P.P. or under a brand name? I noticed they stopped selling muratic (hydrochloric) acid, or at least in the stores I have been in. I wonder how many other "dangerous" chemicals they have pulled.

    If you're brave enough, the sulphuric acid could easily be distilled back to a higher purity. That is, of course, if you wanted to use it for something "other" than cleaning things While I have yet to try it, brake fluid (polyethelyne glycol) is also supposed to have a rather, uh, strong exothermic reaction similar to the glycerine.

    Note to anyone wishing to mix sulphuric acid with P.P.; if mixed with enough purity, it is such a powerful oxidizer that it will literally explode on contact with any fuel source. It will also produce toxic ozone, not something you really want to be doing inside.

  8. #8
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Nothing. I tried acetone, soap, laquer thinner. I got a little result from isopropyl alchohol, but probably just my rubbing did more good. I was trying to clean a large open-top container, so I was able to get my hands down in there and scrub. It never came completely clean.

  9. #9
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    The sulfuric acid we get here as battery acid is about 37% based on Specific Gravity.

    Permanganates react and explode or catch fire in contact with some chemicals such as glycerine.

    PE

  10. #10

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    Sold at Home Depot, "Filter-Mate Potassium Permanganate, Green Sand Iron Filter Regenerator". Absolutely be sure you read up on any chemical before you use it. As I said, P.P. will react with a large list of other items, generating lots of heat. A small pile of P.P., say maybe an ounce or so, and about a quarter of an ounce of glycerine poured into it will make a small lava flow, glowing, flaming, smoking. And of course battery acid is not to be treated carelessly either. HOWEVER, I've never had any problem mixing up the tray cleaner or using it. As always, mix the ingredients in the order they are in the formula. Wearing gloves and eye protection is highly recommended. Once its all mixed up, its not really that powerful, and in fact is pretty weak. It does clean trays very well.

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