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Thread: HP4 - now what?

  1. #11
    Aron's Avatar
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    Tom, I also developed a quarter-inch sheet (one of my last HP4 sheets...) in Rodinal 1+25 and I confirm your results , indeed the film is fogged after spending decades on a shelf.

    Does anyone have HP3? :rolleyes:
    It'd be interesting to check the difference in fog.

  2. #12

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    I developed some HP4 120 rollfilm a few years ago that had sat in my Dad's loft since the 1960s...

    I contacted Ilford and they supplied me with development times. I'll find these and post them if you wish, although I supect they are of little use.

    The base fog was very high, thus bringing the effective film speed right down and probably making a nonsense of any development times anyway - but I did get useable, printable images.

    The bottom line is, do you have even fog? (nice and uniform, so the film is useable) or patchy and irregular? (in which case forget it unless it can be used for 'arty special effects'!) My film had lots of fog, but perfectly even, almost like it had been coated on a hazy, matt backing.
    Steve

  3. #13
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    Oh, ya... nice even (deep) fog. I imagine enough to diminish the film's latitude by at least 50%. I was able to reduce about one half the fog with some Farmers' Reducer. I don't know how much that would really help when it comes to printing. A very contrasty scene might yield a printable negative.

    I would like to see your dev times, but as I'm doing tray processing, I can easily inspect the negative as it progresses.

    I haven't actually shot anything with this film yet. I'm being held hostage in a theatre orchestra pit for the next two weeks, so I won't have much opportunity to do any sort of meaningful shooting. (Opening a production of Evita with Theatre Kent tomorrow.. Yikes... )

    Thanks for the hints.

    Cheers,
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


  4. #14

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    Ok,

    These times were sent to me by Ilford, about 15 years ago...

    These times are for rollfilms. 35 mm times are a bit quicker for HP3 and HP4, but a bit longer for the FP3...?

    FP3 @125ASA Microphen: 6mins normal contrast, 8.30 high contrast.
    FP3 @125ASA ID-11: 7.30 normal contrast, 10:00 high Contrast

    HP3 @400ASA Microphen: 8mins normal contrast, 12min high contrast.
    HP3 @400ASA ID-11: 10min normal contrast, 14min high contrast


    HP4 @400ASA Microphen: 6mins normal contrast, 7.30min high contrast.
    HP4 @400ASA ID-11: 9min normal contrast, 11min high contrast

    Also, years of introduction:
    Selochrome 1937
    Selochrome FG pan1938
    HP2 1938
    FP2 1939
    HP3 1941
    FP3 1946
    PAN F 1948
    HPS 1954
    HP4 1960
    FP4 1968
    HP5 1976
    HP5 plus 1989
    FP4 plus 1991
    PanF plus 1992
    Steve

  5. #15
    Toffle's Avatar
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    Ok... this is an OLD thread... but seeing as I'm the one who started it, I might as well finish it.
    It's amazing how easily I get sidetracked. I finally returned to this film after nearly four years, and picked up right where I left off. I tested a couple of sheets in HC-110 and got the same deep fog as before. (not appreciably worse, at any rate) I tried a quick bath in Farmer's, and did cut the fog, but also reduced everything else on the sheet. No better than before.

    So I tried adding 10ml of 10%KBr to 500ml of HC-110 Dil-b and Eureka! Not a magic bullet, but the fog is cut by about 75%, while still having reasonable contrast and I have negatives I can print.
    I did shoot the same scene with FP4+ and the HP4 came out only a little underexposed in comparison. I think that I can rate the HP4 at 200 and get some reasonable results.

    Question for those who know this kind of thing... Now that I've resurrected this film, I'm wondering if there are tweaks to improve it even more. Could I get similar/better results by adding Farmer's A solution (ferri)?

    Cheers,
    Tom

    I like when things work out.
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


  6. #16

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    Benzatriozole is suppossed to be the real magic bullet - not that such things really exist
    I've never tried it myself as a nice fresh film seemed much easier to obtain and was cheaper - kind of defeating the point. Maybe it might work out a bit more viable for a box of 4 x 5. How many sheets do you have?

    Interesting how you say you get distracted. I suffer with the same affliction. Work, real life, commitments - all get in the way of the fun stuff :-(
    Steve

  7. #17
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    HP4 - now what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toffle View Post
    Ok... this is an OLD thread... but seeing as I'm the one who started it, I might as well finish it.
    It's amazing how easily I get sidetracked. I finally returned to this film after nearly four years, and picked up right where I left off. I tested a couple of sheets in HC-110 and got the same deep fog as before. (not appreciably worse, at any rate) I tried a quick bath in Farmer's, and did cut the fog, but also reduced everything else on the sheet. No better than before.

    So I tried adding 10ml of 10%KBr to 500ml of HC-110 Dil-b and Eureka! Not a magic bullet, but the fog is cut by about 75%, while still having reasonable contrast and I have negatives I can print.
    I did shoot the same scene with FP4+ and the HP4 came out only a little underexposed in comparison. I think that I can rate the HP4 at 200 and get some reasonable results.

    Question for those who know this kind of thing... Now that I've resurrected this film, I'm wondering if there are tweaks to improve it even more. Could I get similar/better results by adding Farmer's A solution (ferri)?

    Cheers,
    Tom

    I like when things work out.
    Suggestions..

    Why not cut the sheets into smaller sizes like 6x7 and load that into an MF back to cut down on waste as you test the film. Or even 35mm... All you need is a dark bag, load the cut film in the back and close it expose the one frame and repeat. You can do it on your back porch (or inside if you use lighting). Saves a lot of waste.

    Secondly, give Ilfsol 3 a try, I've had really good results with old film and Ilfsol 3, I know everyone says HC-110 is the go to anti-fog film but I've developed film from 1947 that had less fog than new film with HC-110 (this was only the case of 3200 speed film in HC-110).

    Anyway just my thoughts. Also as I understand it and in my humble experience the rule is 1 stop per 10 years or so, assuming your film is at least 20 years old, rating at 100 would still be fine.

    Again just an estimation. Try EI 160 as a new testing mark.




    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  8. #18
    Toffle's Avatar
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    How many sheets do I have?... It was opened by the previous owner, and he may have used a few... I've tested maybe a half-dozen sheets... I'm guessing perhaps 35 sheets remaining.

    As for getting distracted, when I started this thread, I was working full time and volunteering six months of the year as the musical director for a community theatre group. Since then, I have retired from the real job, but have kept up with the theatre, and have invested many hours (and dollars) into trying to make a business from my photography. No rest for the wicked.

    Stone, seeing as I already have a good estimate of the exposure for this film, I may try exposing a sheet and cutting it down for different development. I will see what mysterious developers I inherited when I bought a former pro's darkroom a few years ago.

    Thanks for the suggestions folks. I am a little more encouraged now that I can get reasonable results with this film after all.

    Cheers,
    Tom
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


  9. #19
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    HP4 - now what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toffle View Post
    How many sheets do I have?... It was opened by the previous owner, and he may have used a few... I've tested maybe a half-dozen sheets... I'm guessing perhaps 35 sheets remaining.

    As for getting distracted, when I started this thread, I was working full time and volunteering six months of the year as the musical director for a community theatre group. Since then, I have retired from the real job, but have kept up with the theatre, and have invested many hours (and dollars) into trying to make a business from my photography. No rest for the wicked.

    Stone, seeing as I already have a good estimate of the exposure for this film, I may try exposing a sheet and cutting it down for different development. I will see what mysterious developers I inherited when I bought a former pro's darkroom a few years ago.

    Thanks for the suggestions folks. I am a little more encouraged now that I can get reasonable results with this film after all.

    Cheers,
    Tom
    It it was an old darkroom, it may have Ilfsol S... I want to stress that this is different than Ilfsol 3... Ilfsol 3 is new and much better than the older stuff.

    It's not too expensive and I guarantee you'll like the characteristics at least for normal films and hopefully for this older film


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  10. #20
    Toffle's Avatar
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    Here is a test print from yesterday's negatives. 4x5 pinhole image shot on 40 year old HP4, developed in HC-110 with 10ml of 10% KBr to reduce fog. Printed on Central Camera house-brand FB Matte paper, in Caffenol, and partially toned in Selenium.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Definitely useable after all these years.
    Cheers,
    Tom
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


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