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  1. #11

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    Ed, according to my camera repair guys, it is real. At least it is for their photojournalist clients, their "kidnapers" and their wedding photograpers. Their largest wedding photo client has completely switched from Hassleblads to digital Nikons over the last 2 years.

    Of course, when a digital body conks out, you usually don't even attempt to repair it. The lenses are a different story.

    IMO silver based photography will be around for a long while yet in the MF, LF and ULF realms. Whether the cost accountants will allow the Kodaks, Fujis, and other big co.s to continue manufacturing the film is another question.

    A big freezer seems like a good idea.
    Tom Hoskinson
    ______________________________

    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  2. #12

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    Amen, Ed. I'm not anti-digital, although it's not what I enjoy. But yes: the amount that photographers are willing to spend on digital in order to approach the quality of film, especially medium format, is astounding. I've won a couple of contests, and sold the odd print here and there, with a $3.00 roll of film in a couple of sub-$200.00 TLRs.

    Unfortunately, in today's landscape of mega-corporations, the consumer won't be able to buy what he/she wants. The consumer can only buy what is offered, and there is huge money in planned obsolescence. There is no money (well, not enough money in today's world) in my style of photography. It used to compute, but somehow it doesn't any longer.

    While the above mentioned TLRs will most likely retain their value, my 2-1/2 year old $800.00 Nikon digital is down to less than 1/2 it's original value, and falling.

    The only strategy I can think of is to support those boutique shops: Ilford, Forte, Photographer's Formulary, et al.
    "If You Push Something Hard Enough, It Will fall over" - Fudd's First Law of Opposition

  3. #13

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    Ed

    Unfortunately people buy the advertising hype, then turn around and buy the digital cameras. Shutterbug(a magazine I stopped buying maybe five years ago, but I was sent for an unknown reason two free ones) is all digital. Full of "Professionals" sounding the digital is better battle cry. and professing the death of film.

    I do wonder if it is media hype and corporate pushing that is killing the film market. It really does make sense if you ditch your ethics and think the way a corporation does.

    Build something that will not last. Force people to update ever few years to ensure a market demand and place prices that are higher on the new ones than the old ones while slaughtering the market for the used equipment, by making the used stuff obsolete

    or

    Build something to last, that people will give their kids. Build it so people will not have to "upgrade" unless they really want to. there are a lot of people using twenty year old Nikons and Canons out there, and fifty+ year old LF cameras?

    There is a reason they don't build them like they used to.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  4. #14
    david b's Avatar
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    Just received this:

    Dear David,

    Thank you for contacting Agfa Consumer Imaging. Please be advised that there are no immediate plans to discontinue any Agfa 120 roll films


    Sincerely,
    John Auer
    Agfa Consumer Imaging

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by david b
    Thank you for contacting Agfa Consumer Imaging. Please be advised that there are no immediate plans to discontinue any Agfa 120 roll films
    by "immediate" please understand "in the next 48 hours..."

    regardless, Agfa will be the 1st to fall, followed by Kodak & Fuji. Ilford, in my ignorant understanding, does not have as a big of a share in the digital market, so they might hold out a bit longer.

    All of the sudden that arista.edu line sounds very interesting, doesn't it?
    BTW, changing topics, am I the only one reading "only students need B/W film" in the arista.edu name?

  6. #16

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    Based on my experience with other slow and medium speed films I believe that APX 100 can be frozen for eons. However 400 speed films do not seem to last much more than ten years without a lot of base fog.

    Mark Layne
    Mark Layne
    Nova Scotia
    and Barbados

  7. #17
    Les McLean's Avatar
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    Andre R. de Avillez wrote:
    Ilford, in my ignorant understanding, does not have as a big of a share in the digital market, so they might hold out a bit longer.



    Three years ago Ilford were just about gone, Kodak had made an offer and it was accepted but just a short time before the contracts were to be signed Kodak pulled out of the deal. Ilford started to manufacture high end digital paper but also sold very low end digital paper in places like Tesco and Computer World and those sales generated a lot of income and saved Ilford. Last year for the first time more than 50% of their turnover was generated by Digital paper sales and they are still growing. I do quite a lot of promotional work with Ilford and when the UK Sales Director told me the figures I asked for how long they would continue to manufacture film to be told that there were no plans to stop but that they would not be spending money on research projects for new traditional products. Whilst we may be anti digital we have it to thank for saving Ilford.

    I have worked for Ilford at shows and in colleges for nearly 10 years and have always found they give straight answers to my sometimes very direct questions and they are very concerned about their customers needs. I think they will continue making film and paper for many years to come. I do not think that I can say the same about Agfa, it has been common knowledge for many years in the industry in the UK that Agfa B&W Division has been available for sale but their have been no serious takers.

  8. #18
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    There are some photographic applications where film *IS* dead: the Real Estate and Used Cars for sale ads, Super Market Flyers ... *Major* "big news" periodicals - I've seen some truly *pitiful* work from low end digitals in the small-town papers... I just developed a roll of Tri X 35mm on an emergency basis for a small town paper (local lab closed over the weekend). Much of the "intermediate advertising" is still done on film ... the capital outlay to switch to digital is a terrible barrier.

    The last time I visited my Hasselblad Fixer guy, he was **swamped** with work - heavily used 'blads with the typical note: "Please see if you can patch this worn out puppy together so that it will operate until the price of digital becomes reasonable."

    From what *I* hear ... feel free to beat this to death, I have *no* way to "justify: this ... the "Film Camera" market is depressed - a bunch; photographers are "waiting for ..", and the Digital Market (low - to moderate) is *saturated*. No one is doing well at the moment.

    I still say we have indications of what the future will be from what has - or has not - happened in the past: photography did not kill oil painting: Acrylics did not make oils obsolete - digital watches did not wipe those with analog dials out. ... I remember when Polaroids promised the end of traditional film ...

    I wish there was some reliable source for measuring what was happening in real life - I've learned - a long time ago - not to rely on advertising copy as a source of factual truth - ANY advertising copy.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  9. #19
    blansky's Avatar
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    I would bet that in ten years you will not find a portrait studio using film. There are just too many benefits not to. The entire industry is gearing towards digital and everything from equipment, printing, retouching and seminars is falling in line.

    I will also bet that you won't find a wedding photographer, photojournalist, fashion shooter or product shooter using it either.

    Although Ed naturally will argue with me and find some guy he knows still doing it, the guy will be a very lonely low budget die hard.

    The only people using traditional darkrooms and analog equipment will be "fine art" people. God bless them.

    The problem is they will have far less product to choose from because the big companies will have dropped most of it by then.

    You can probably still find people using typewriters but I bet not many. I wonder how much carbon paper they sell these days.

    It's sad but money makes the world go round. Does this affect you, maybe maybe not.

    but the times they are a changin'

    Michael

  10. #20
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    Michael,
    I agree. I think in FIVE years the only folks using film will be the fine art photographers.

    But I love reading about the latest "interest" in old school photograph such as wet plate etc.

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