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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson
    Needless to say, I dumped everything Agfa like a hot potato when they actively lied about 4x5 APX100. Who can be dependent in any way on a supplier or vendor that acts like this?
    I think that they might not be lying, just incompetent. Their web site has out-of-date info, and their most recent pdf on film development which was removed some months ago, presumably to correct some major obvious errors, has yet to reappear.

    I was tempted by the recent new APX400, but without 120, there's no point now for me to even think about it. I do like Agfa chemcals, especially Neutol WA print developer, but there are alternatives.

  2. #42

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    It means I can be perfectly happy with just HP5 and/or Tri-X, maybe FP4 sometimes, and a few colour films. I won't be missing Agfa at all.
    Pierre

  3. #43

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    come on people - can u imagine - no apx any more....
    generally, most of the times i use ilford plus films fp/hp, but apx100/400 have their own character, and even if i use them only from time to time, i wouldnt like to be in situation that i have no this choice of something different sometime. cannot imagine some of my photos without the grain and the appearance of the apx400. cannot imagine some of my photos without the deeply shining beauty of the apx100.
    and their papers - mcc111/118, are they going to discontinue this too some day??????????????
    help... dont want to hear it. not the papers and not the rodinal.
    and on the 120rolls the apx is very important, cause it is much more difficult to get the grain i want and the curve i want sometimes on the hp, and the delta3200 is out of my taste.
    if they will really discontinue their film it will be bad news to me even if i dont use them massively.
    victor

  4. #44
    gma
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    All of us know that the silver image on fiber paper is what photography is all about, but I think that the vast majority of our population lacks an appreciation of b&w. When people in my office see the APUG images on my monitor the usual comment is "great picture, too bad it isn't in color". A coworker told me that his daughter is taking a photography class in college "but they are only doing b&w". Let's face it folks. We are a minority and we cannot count on any manufacturer to supply our needs.


    gma
    [FONT=Century Gothic][/FONT][SIZE=7][/SIZE][COLOR=DarkOrange][/COLOR] I may be getting older, but I refuse to grow up!

  5. #45
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    Digital medium is the current "state of the art" for accumulating, storing, retrieving and distributing data. That data can be manipulated into reports, graphics, digital photo images, renderings of sound or music. Digital is quantitative by definition. It takes a leap of faith the accept any qualitative aspects to digital. The basic quality, that makes digital so useful, is the same as its quantitative simplicity - it's binary, bi-polar, either "on" or "off" of a micro switching circuit.

    Perhaps, we can learn from history. Let's look at the immediate predecessor to digital photography - digital recording and storage - CD's. CD's are a storage medium superior to the vinyl records that they replaced. For the general consumer, the conversion has been complete since the mid- 80's. To the general consumer, recorded music is primarily "pleasing background noise". I define this as "non-active listening". The music is an adjunct to another activity. This consumer base embraced the clean, clear sound of digital sound. Clarity is the overriding benefit. CD's met their need for background music storage.

    There has always been a consumer base of active music listeners. Listening to, and enjoying recorded music is the primary activity. Although a significantly smaller consumer base, still a viable market. Generally quality vinyl records played on quality electronics comprise the music playback system - not plastic consumer equipment stacks! Fidelity is the overriding benefit of a quality medium and playback system. Fidelity, or truth, to the original artist's performance is the goal. The availability of quality vinyl recordings has NEVER been higher than today. But to the general public vinyl records ceased to exist nearly 20 years ago! The lowest common denominator to the product mix has been eliminated. There are virtually no "consumer grade" vinyl records available new. A new CD costs $18-27. A new, audiophile grade vinyl recording can be purchased for virtually the same price! Similar corollaries can be drawn to practices in the professional recording industry.

    So will history repeat itself with photography? I believe so. We are not the general consumers. Film will, most likely, not be a mass market consumer product in the near future. For those who do commercial work, and especially for mass reproduction - digital, being a superior storage and transfer medium will win! Digital better meets these markets' needs. So how about us!

    When quality and expression are the driving needs, not click 'n' shoot or storage and transfer, film will be a segment of the market's choice. There will be marketeers to meet that need. Will it be Kodak, Agfa or Ilford? Probably not. Columbia, RCA and London no longer produce vinyl records, but niche marketeers have very profitably filled the need! I would postulate that photographers of our ilk greatly outnumber the audiophiles. So we will be a viable niche market.

    The overall cost of producing film is much lower and the overall processes are much simpler than the convolutions of the music recording industry. Look to Efke, Foma, Forte, etc. as our future manufacturers. I am perfectly happy with their products today! Just like the niche marketeers purchased the vinyl record stamping plants, perhaps the same will happen to the Film Big 3's facilities and we will have choices, yet unknown!

    I am not to worried that I will have to cryo store a vast reserve of B&W film. I am confident that the market will adjust. The consumer film products will vanish in favor of digital imaging. I will be able to buy quality B&W film because, niche marketeers will step in to meet my needs.

    Cheers!

    Geary

  6. #46
    gma
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    Exactly my point, Geary. When DuPont bought Adox in the 60's they sold the machinery to an Eastern European country and now we have Efke films. If and when Agfa ceases to produce film surely they will sell their expensive machinery to someone. They aren't going to let it rust away in a pasture. If there is money to be made someone will make film for us.

    gma

  7. #47
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierre
    It means I can be perfectly happy with just HP5 and/or Tri-X, maybe FP4 sometimes, and a few colour films. I won't be missing Agfa at all.
    Pierre
    I am starting to get a trifle ....

    Who cares if AZO finally drops out of existence? No one uses it any more. *I* n.b. EGOCENTIRIC "I" - haven't used it so there is obviously NO need for it .. and anyone that disagrees is an idiot ...**NOT**!!

    This was typed with the sarcastic key [ON ] to make a point. *DOES* the 'shoe fit' anywhere?

    AGFA makes damned GOOD film. I like it and will recommend it to anyone who asks.

    Aren't we shovelling the dirt into a grave that doesn't exist yet?
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  8. #48
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    Amen brother!
    hi!

  9. #49

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    ed
    i really hope this grave doesnt exist...
    but as an agfa lover, u know, if the grave exists it will be a great lost and not the last lost
    victor

  10. #50
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    I just checked our esteemed sponsor, Calumet (see the link at the top of the page). AgfaPan APX 100 and 400 are in stock - and ready to ship; so is Agfa Optima 100, 200 - Optima 400 "Stock is low".

    We have a *rumor*, nothing more. Agfa says they are *considering* ... if Kodak or Fuji or Ilford or Efke or Fred's discount film said the same thing. it would not surprize me.

    A RUMOR - and - SOME here have already placed the headstone on the grave of Agfa as a supplier.

    Chill out, guys. It *could* happen - and I *could* get hit with a meteorite the next time I walk out of my front door.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

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