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Thread: Which 5X7 film

  1. #11
    rwboyer's Avatar
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    Just went through this a few weeks ago and here is what I decided:

    http://photo.rwboyer.com/2009/12/19/...your-mouth-is/

  2. #12
    rwboyer's Avatar
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    Just to expand on this a little bit...

    For those of you out there that are using Foma and Efke and adore one of the products for whatever the reason might be from an aesthetic point of view - I say wonderful. If you have gone through all of your evaluations and made a decision that was not based on price, fantastic.

    For me I really really wanted to shoot Kodak film - My decision to evaluate Efke was purely price motivated and ultimately I decided that I could make it work (but I did have a major hiccup) but ultimately decided to stick with Kodak purely because I want to support the products that I love so much.

    Yep $5 a sheet of 8x10 is hard to swallow but guess what - it is not a big deal considering everything else that goes into a photography project. My motivation to look for something a little less expensive was me being too cheap - I am going to shoot 100 sheets minimum for a project that I am doing - that's $500. The cheapest it could be is $250 so the question I had to come to grips with is - was $250 over the course of a long term project really going to be life changing? NO. The amount of time and effort shooting 100 8x10 sheets along with the had processing, printing, etc, etc. and I am going to put the screws to a company that I love and want to support over $250. NO.

    I am not going to be the one that does not support a product I love and then bitch when it goes away. I am going to do my best to support the companies and products that I love to use and would hate to see them go away. I encourage you to do the same.

    RB

  3. #13
    ronlamarsh's Avatar
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    I salute your committment; that is the reason I belong to a CSA, recycle and a thousand other things. Kodak tri-x is second to none that is for sure but I am also about choice and that is what efke,foma and others provide and I am just as committed to supporting that as I am the small sustainable farm etc. Also the bottom line is if I go to my wife and tell her I just spent $104 on 5X7 film she'll skin my alive.
    Here is something to think about also: if we do not support choice also we may end up at the mercy of a single supplier i.e. no competition. It is truely sad that film manufacturers must struggle so.
    No escaping it!
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  4. #14
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    addition

    Addendum to my last post: I have been in the medical imaging industry for 35yrs. and Kodak,Agfa and Fuji were the major players in suppling film. Consumer purchases of balck&white film were a very small part of the overall business for these folks, the bulk of their business was medical imaging that used literlly tons of product. Since the imaging industry went digital( a good thing for the public,environment and their bottom line)the former film suppliers have been struggling and frankly I am surprised they offer anything at all considering how important it is to "wallstreet" to post that "all improtant"quaterly profit in excess of 10%. So it is again, for me, a matter of maximum choice and price as I resent being held hostage to the likes of Bernie Madoff and other investment types, to whom Art is something to see at a muesum or purchase at Christies and have no interset in its actual creation.
    No escaping it!
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    to take this path

  5. #15
    rwboyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronlamarsh View Post
    I salute your committment; that is the reason I belong to a CSA, recycle and a thousand other things. Kodak tri-x is second to none that is for sure but I am also about choice and that is what efke,foma and others provide and I am just as committed to supporting that as I am the small sustainable farm etc. Also the bottom line is if I go to my wife and tell her I just spent $104 on 5X7 film she'll skin my alive.
    Here is something to think about also: if we do not support choice also we may end up at the mercy of a single supplier i.e. no competition. It is truely sad that film manufacturers must struggle so.
    As I mentioned - If you happen to like a Foma or Efke product better than a Kodak or Ilford or Fuji product - by all means support it with your purchase. However for my own personal work I don't - and even though I could make just about any film work. I have made the decision to put my money where my mouth is vs. making a decision solely on cost.

    I encourage film shooters to do the same - buy the film you rather have vs the cheaper alternative that will "make due". Whatever film that may be - doing otherwise you are doing the exact same thing as the people you criticize on Wall Street.

    RB

  6. #16
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    I have read with interest the above ideas and sentiments. I cannot say I disagree. I expect, however, that in just a few years, the only film coming out of Rochester (or wherever EK chooses to make it) will be Tri-X--no matter what.

    Having been behind the photo counter, so to speak, from the 1960s through the 1990s, and experienced the steady changes EK made to film formats as a means to stick it to photofinishers by requiring all new lab equipment periodically (lessee, 126, 110, Disk) each time providing less gelatine and silver for the same amount of money to the consumer, I do not expect Eastman to stay with those few of we dinosaurs using film.
    I have long preferred slow and medium-speed films in medium format. So I guess I shall begin letting my dollars vote for me trying to help FOMA and EFKE upgrading and going.
    John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

  7. #17
    rwboyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anscojohn View Post
    I have read with interest the above ideas and sentiments. I cannot say I disagree. I expect, however, that in just a few years, the only film coming out of Rochester (or wherever EK chooses to make it) will be Tri-X--no matter what.

    Having been behind the photo counter, so to speak, from the 1960s through the 1990s, and experienced the steady changes EK made to film formats as a means to stick it to photofinishers by requiring all new lab equipment periodically (lessee, 126, 110, Disk) each time providing less gelatine and silver for the same amount of money to the consumer, I do not expect Eastman to stay with those few of we dinosaurs using film.
    I have long preferred slow and medium-speed films in medium format. So I guess I shall begin letting my dollars vote for me trying to help FOMA and EFKE upgrading and going.
    I don't disagree with you on your support of films you like. It is exactly what I am advocating that film users do.

    I do have a couple of points of contention or more clarification.

    Personally I never shot 126, 110, or disk. I don't want to argue about corporate intent or machinations to turn a profit but I see those formats at least in the same traditions as Kodak as been doing since it's inception - convenience for consumers. All the while that Kodak was providing convenience to consumers it was also providing professional products that were second to none in terms of quality and innovation.

    In medium format you have the choice of TX400, TXP, PXP, TMX, and TMY - from my point of view NOTHING Efke or Foma puts out right now touches these products. I am not saying that you cannot make good photos with Foma or Efke 120 and I am sure that people will argue some aesthetic point but Kodak films in 120 cover a giant range of looks, speeds, and aesthetics - even though they have been whittled down to these few.

    If you have some kind of ax to grind with Kodak because of some equipment lease issues from more than a decade ago having nothing to do with your choice of 120 film is kind of irrelevant to what products you like or don't like. Heck Efke 120 film does not hold a candle to Kodak quality just looking at the base quality or the way the paper backing fits.

    RB

  8. #18
    rwboyer's Avatar
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    Ps.

    I really do not think the profit motives of Kodak were to extract money from film processors. I do think their motives were targeting typical consumers that wanted smaller devices and never printed anything larger than a 3x5 or 4x6.

    Do you really think a 126 is not smaller than a 35mm, or a 110 smaller than a 126, or a disk smaller than just about anything but a minox?

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronlamarsh View Post
    Can't really afford to pay double for the Ilford or Kodak products.
    You can if you shoot half as much.

    No matter what format you shoot, you are paying about the same per unit of emulsion surface area, so what is the difference? If you have decided to shoot a larger format, you have hopefully done so for some reason, and have balanced the pros and cons of doing so against those of other formats. Larger film is more expensive per shot. However, hopefully you are using it because you feel that its advantages outweigh, or at least balance this for the project you are shooting, and not just "because". So, simply shoot fewer pictures if you want the cost to be the same. With 5x7, shoot 1 picture for every 18 you would shoot on 35mm. Simple. Choose your format to match your subject. If you don't press a sheet film camera into doing a 35mm camera's job, then shooting sheet film is not more expensive.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 12-31-2009 at 03:58 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

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  10. #20
    ronlamarsh's Avatar
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    Contact prints

    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    You can if you shoot half as much.

    No matter what format you shoot, you are paying about the same per unit of emulsion surface area, so what is the difference? If you have decided to shoot a larger format, you have hopefully done so for some reason, and have balanced the pros and cons of doing so against those of other formats. Larger film is more expensive per shot. However, hopefully you are using it because you feel that its advantages outweigh, or at least balance this for the project you are shooting, and not just "because". So, simply shoot fewer pictures if you want the cost to be the same. With 5x7, shoot 1 picture for every 18 you would shoot on 35mm. Simple. Choose your format to match your subject. If you don't press a sheet film camera into doing a 35mm camera's job, then shooting sheet film is not more expensive.
    The primary reason I got into 5X7 is contact printing, both silver and alt-process.
    No escaping it!
    I must step on fallen leaves
    to take this path

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