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  1. #1

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    FP4 pre-soaking (dye?) - 120

    Hi there,

    Curious question.

    Normally I pre-soak 35mm FP4 in water at a similar temperature to the dev/fix for about five minutes - just done this usual procedure with 120 FP4 and the watr was dark coloured when I poured it out. Is it a dye?

    I have never had this with 35mm, what is it? Why on 120 and not 35mm? Should 120 not be pre-soaked but 35mm ok to pre-soak?

    Any thoughts or preferably answers welcomed!

    Cheers,
    Sim2.

  2. #2
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    You have just stepped into a subject matter that is argued on both sides with religious fervor. We have on one side the pre-soakers; on the other side we have the non-soakers. Stand back and watch the fur fly.

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  3. #3
    thefizz's Avatar
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    Don't worry, its just the anti-halation layer being washed off.
    www.thephotoshop.ie
    www.monochromemeath.com

    "you get your mouth off of my finger" Les McLean

  4. #4

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    Thanks, guessed it was like a dye thing - anti-halation eh?

    What is the purpose of tha layer? Any reason for keeping it by not pre-soaking? Any reason why it's not evident on 35mm FP4 film?

  5. #5
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    The anti-halation layer keeps light from passing all the way through the negative and then reflecting off the pressure plate and back onto the film (exposing it a second time -- especially in the highlights.) Instead, the layer sort of absorbs the light. Kodak's infra red film had no anti-halation layer -- thus the highlights tended to glow from the extra exposure.

    Different bases perhaps are used for 35mm and 120? so the anti-halation layer is handled differently?

    Vaughn
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  6. #6

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    A technical learning curve here - cheers for the input, that makes sense as I think 35mm is coated onto a layer which isn't on 120 ewhich needs the paper backing to replicate this. Perhaps?

    Still learning.

  7. #7
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    The only films which may not have the anti-halation layer is the LF films. Some have the layer and some do not.

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  8. #8
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    You have just stepped into a subject matter that is argued on both sides with religious fervor. We have on one side the pre-soakers; on the other side we have the non-soakers. Stand back and watch the fur fly.

    Steve
    True, but consistency is the important thing here. If you pre-soak, always pre-soak. Include it into your film development test, because it affects development. Don't test with it and develop without it or visa versa, and you'll be fine.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  9. #9

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    I agree with the consistency. Just a bit scary to see "dark" water coming out when it is not expected - especially as it has not been seen before on other formats.

    Have heard that newer films such as delta should not be pre-soaked as the dye is "used" by the dev. Fishmongers tales or gospel truth?

  10. #10
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    Do not be alarmed. It has to come out some time. It if doesn't come out in the initial rinse water, it comes out in the developer. If you do not pre soak, you see this same thing when you pour out your developer.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

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