Today's film IS better.

[Ray Rogers]

Kodak USED to make a dozen films, so you'd have the right film for any event. Today, they make 3 T-Grain films which cover the same range, and 2 traditional films which cover most of the range.

I see a lot of wisdom in much of what you said earlier...

However, one thing is fuzzy...

Exactly what are you saying the "3 T-Grain films" can do...
that the "2 traditional films" cannot?

And to what do you ascribe this difference?

(I get the feeling you are saying something more than speed/grain relatonship....)

Ray

[David A. Goldfarb]

I don't think "T-grain" vs. traditional is necessarily an interesting comparison, since there are so many very different films that could be described under those rubrics. Fomapan 200 is said to be a T-grain film, but it looks like something from the 1930s. I like Delta 400, but don't care for Delta 100. For scenes that have a really wide brightness range, I like T-Max 100, but not so much for other scenes. I like Tri-X, but don't particularly like HP5+, though I like FP4+ more than Plus-X. On the other hand, in Super-8, I like Plus-X Reversal better than Tri-X Reversal. I don't like T-Max 400 in general, but every once in a while, I see something on T-Max 400 that looks right, and probably people who use it all the time gravitate toward the kind of light or kind of scene where it's just the right thing. Alternative processes are the same way in that I think once someone is into a particular process, you start looking for scenes that will look good to you with that process.

The point is that fine photographs can be made with just about any of the films that are out there, and you've got to experiment a bit and then stick with what works and it all becomes part of your vision.

[Thomas Bertilsson]

The point is that fine photographs can be made with just about any of the films that are out there, and you've got to experiment a bit and then stick with what works and it all becomes part of your vision.

Yes! That is exactly the core of it.

This is why I love it how the learned people, here and elsewhere, actually can describe the response of a film in a curve, because it is pretty much the only objective way to look at it. Everything else is personal opinion, based on how the film is used, processed, and printed. Opinion is, as we can tell by thousands of accounts here, something we can never agree on.
Numbers and curves are fairly definite, and something we can agree upon, because they apply to us all. And, they do tell a large bit of what a film can and will do for us when we use it, tweak it, push its limits and go beyond.

I was reminded today that the entity that puts magic in a photograph consists of the photographers and their skills with their equipment.
WE can make our materials sing beautiful songs in silver tones, and that comes from within regardless of material choices.

- Thomas

[michaelbsc]

It depends on what WE do. Different developers give different results.

OK, let me ask a processing question related to the T-Max film. Not about developing, but about fixing. The little T-max I have used looked good after processing, so I'm interested in this.

Two facts are relevant:
A) I shoot a fair amount of 127, and until very recently EFKE was the only thing I didn't have to slit myself. So the very clear based EFKE was my first choice.

B) I usually save and replenish my fixer based on recommendations from Ilford.

Whenever I have processed T-max I get the pink washout into the fixer stream (well know and understood), and I've discarded this T-max'd pink fixer in whole to prevent staining other subsequent film.

I have no evidence that the pink stain can transfer to the clear EFKE base just from reusing fixer from T-max. But it seemed prudent to discard it, and doing so once in a while it isn't a great financial loss. Occasionally I feel the need to pitch out the whole batch and start fresh anyway.

So, do any of you use a lot of T-max, and save the fixer for reuse? If so, do you reuse T-max'd fixer only with subsequent rolls of T_max? Or have you noticed no ill effect on other film even with the pink color? Or is it "OK for the gray based, but tints the clear based film."

Or am I the first guinea pig and everyone is expecting me to report back?

[Tim Gray]

RE: fixer. I don't process a ton of T-max, but I've noticed the pink stain goes away after a little while after I've poured it back into the jug.

[fschifano]

Yes indeed, I do re-use the fixer from TMax films. Yes the dye fades in the fixer in a short time, and no it won't stain anything else. The dye is water soluble, and if there's any left in the film after fixing is complete, a soak of the film in processing temperature water will remove it. TMax films will take a bigger bite out of your fixer's capacity. Using only TMax films, the fixer is only good for about 60% to 65% of what you'd be able to fix of "regular" film.

Back on topic.

[bdial]

I don't use very much TMax, but I do reuse the fix with other films, and it has never caused a problem, for me at least.

[i40west]

The fact that Edwal 12 isn't en vogue on flickr isn't indicative of anything. Do the APUG google search and you'll find a number of Edwal 12 related posts. As df cardwell clearly says, it's the way that you use it that counts. Perhaps you should ask him about his methods here on APUG rather than looking for confirmation from random posts on flickr.

He's saying that the film you use is irrelevant if you know what you're doing (like, presumably, he does). I can't find anything, on Flickr or here or elsewhere, to demonstrate what he's saying about TMY with Edwal 12, and he doesn't seem terribly willing to share beyond putting people down for not being darkroom experts like he clearly is.

I know that you can flatten the top of TMY's curve a bit with D76, and possibly XTOL (never tried it), but if you can actually get a TX-like S-curve out of it, that's something I'd like to know more about.

[Lee L]

... and he doesn't seem terribly willing to share beyond putting people down for not being darkroom experts like he clearly is.

That's a big assumption to make without asking him directly, and is losing an opportunity to learn what he knows and what you can teach yourself. I know from experience that he'll at least point you in the right direction, but you need to take some initiative and be willing to learn on your own as well. He may not spoon feed you, but he'll show you around the kitchen and give you enough pointers to teach yourself. He's already answered one question in this thread on his way of using APX and making other films look like it.

Covering all the methods of bending a film curve is too much for one internet post.

Lee

[i40west]

That's a big assumption to make without asking him directly

I thought I had.

I'd like to find one or two finer-grained black-and-white films to use once the weather stops keeping me indoors -- after upgrading back to film I've shot a lot of Tri-X, which I love, but now I have a list of stuff to try for finer grain, and T-Max is not on that list. I shot a lot of T-Max back in the day, particularly in school, because that's what the teacher said to use, but wasn't planning to try it now because I didn't like the look of it so much. So, apparently I'm wrong about that and ought to give it another chance. Great, maybe I will, if I find an approach that shows promise. I'm a lot better at this now than I was back then, after all.