I just checked it out... it looks uglier than several weeks ago... D76 from last year still looks fine...
I suppose anything that falls out actually is supposed to be solved... I will see, how the negatives print... and try to mix it with warmer destilled water the next time. Or change my developer...
3° below 20 in my case actually should not be that serious. (some people mix it double strength without any problems... If 20° would be the critical temperature, they would have to store it significantly warmer than 20° to have no fallouts...)
When I used Xtol and D76 in Alaska, I always mixed with tap water - and got the same white particles (the crud / floaters) that you get! I never thought back then to mix with any kind of "special" water. Hehe...guess I was too young to think about things like that at the time.
But - it always worked. So, I don't think the particles are really your problem. It's probably the soda bottles. At the time I used dark brown plastic jugs from B&H, and they worked pretty well - kept for at least 4 months, but I always wanted glass.
I'd say try some glass bottles and "special water" if you want maximum longevity! I know you want Xtol specifically, and I don't blame you because it's fabulous stuff, but you could try some HC-110 syrup if you shoot very little and just need a developer around all the time. That stuff's supposed to last forever!
Last edited by Jedidiah Smith; 03-02-2010 at 05:23 PM. Click to view previous post history.
I recall I used 30C water when mixing xtol. The xtol was fresh, dated 2011 or so. Kodak gives instructions like this:
I'll try glass bottles next time, and maybe even try to get deionized water. My friend hrst said he could probably get the water from some lab at the university.
Start with an amount of water that is approximately
75 percent of the total volume indicated on the
package. See the table above. The water should be at
normal room temperature, about 65 to 85°F (18 to
3 observations as an xtol user who gets 6 months from it no problems.
1: I use a filter jug and never have the particle issue, it's cheaper than buying water
2: I use screw top wine bottles (seem to have an endless natural supply of them!) with saran wrap and the they are fine... not brown but still dark.
3: I started getting better longeivity when I stored the chemicals in the hot press , this applies especially to winter as it's probably the most temperature consistent place in the house and also when I go to develop the base temperature is always around 18C so it doesn't take much time to get everything up to 20C.
I've done some storage testing with XTOL and one of the tests involved storing in refrigerator at 4C. This test didn't show any precipitation, but showed a great extension in shelf life. A test sample of 300 mL at the bottom of a 1 L bottle with air showed the same low level of oxidation than a 300 mL bottle without any air in room temp (23C). OTOH, the corresponding sample (300 mL in 1 L bottle with air) stored at room temperature showed a high level of oxidation.
Originally Posted by Ronald Moravec
Other samples at room temp had butane and they showed oxidation between the extremes.
The method of evaluation was visual inspection of yellowness, and developed test strips on film, scanned and measured for density in scanning software.
The result of the test was that if air cannot be squeezed out completely, putting it in a refrigerator can be surprisingly good way to slow down oxidation and increase shelf-life. After all, most chemical reactions slow down in cold.
There was no problems of precipitation. However, XTOL for this test was more dilute to speed up the expiration. Testing period was about 4 weeks IIRC.
If something would precipitate so easily in lower than 20C, say, at 10C, which I don't really believe, it would probably dissolve back when taken to 20C or over for processing.
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My 1 litre bottle of Xtol is still working consistently after 7 years and hundreds of films. All it gets is a replenishment of 90ml of fresh Xtol for each film and an occasional trip through a coffee filter to take out the white particles and other debris.
I believe the white particles are calcium ascorbate but whatever they are I have never noticed any effect on developer performance.
Photography, the word itself, invented and defined by its author Sir John.F.W.Herschel, 14 March 1839 at the Royal Society, Somerset House, London. Quote "...Photography or the application of the Chemical rays of light to the purpose of pictorial representation,..". unquote.
As Maris said, replenished Xtol seems to last almost forever, even in the old hard rubber Kodak floating lid tanks. I have been using it well over 10 years both as replenished and one-shot and have never had it expire. That said, I mix it with distilled water and store it in brown glass bottles. I use the same mixing and storage for all developers, including D23, and have not had a problem with chemistry expiring.
My first experience with Xtol was ugly - I used tap water, and at that time I lived in a city where a lot of iron particles were in the tap water. There were little spots all over the negatives. Next time I bought 'demineralized' water in a 5 liter plastic canister, put the whole canister into a bucket filled with warm water until the content of the canister had the right temperature. Then I poured in the contents of the A and B bags, screwed the cap on the canister and started shaking it for a while. Then I allowed it to stand until the next morning, shaked it again, then filled it into glass bottles and added some butane gas (heavier than air, prevents oxidization). Now my Xtol now works fine for 6-8 months. I use it as a one-shot developer 1:1 or 1:2. There is a thread about using bag-in-box containers in this forum. In the meanwhile I heard from several people that they store their Xtol in these dirt-cheap containers, it lasts for a very long time.
The future belongs to the few of us still willing to get our hands smell like fixing bath.
I think this is fungus. I had it in my stock XTOL solution, even when mixed with demineralized water. When I changed the stirring stick from wood to plastic they were gone.
Currently I'm using XTOL I mixed last April. Latest after a year I dump it.
Really.. could that be the cause? I used a wooden stick too to mix the xtol in open bucket. Well, I think weirder things can happen
Originally Posted by ath