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  1. #1

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    Another film developing question

    OK,

    AS I have been reading more and more I see that with Pyrocat-HD you do not need a chemical stop bath or Hypo-Clearign agent if you use Tf-4 or a Rapid fixer like Ilford.

    So my question is that if I use a developer like Rodinal or TMax can I use T4F fixer? Also if I use say Ilford rapid fix do I need a chemical stop bath or will water work and in this case will I need a hypo-clearing agent?

    Right now I am using;

    TMAx developer - Changing to Rodinal once I run out.
    Koday Indicator stop bath ( Do I need this if I use a Rapid fix or TF-4 )
    Ilford Rapid Fixer
    Koday Hypo Clearing Agent ( Do I need this. If not do I need to wash negs for 30 minutes )
    Ilford Wetting agent.

    I just am a bit puzzled as I have been reading and notice how with a non-Hardening fixer (TF-4) you do not need a stop or HYPO-clearing agent. But will this hold true for all developers being used?

    Any advice is appreciated as I am trying to get my head artound this before I buy chemistry.

    I tell you what I learned back in College 15 years didnt teach me anything like this. It was D76, Stop bath (chemical), Fixer, Hypoclearing, wash.

    Thanks again,

    Kev

  2. #2
    ann
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    with Tf-4 fixer you do not use an acid stop bath, neither do you use hypo clear. You can use this fixer with all films and papers. You can also use Ilford's rapid fixer.

    Neither do you use stop bath with PMK or pryocat-hd, but you do/can with other film developers.

    Check Ilfords washing methods you do not need to wash for 30 minutes and they (Ilford donot recommend hypoclear with their films)

    Based on your message
    Rodinal
    stop bath/ or water
    rapid fixer
    wash
    wetting agent

    or
    rodinal
    water wash/no stop bath
    TF4 fixer
    wash
    wetting agent

  3. #3

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    According to Photographers Formulary's recommendations, you should not user a stop bath or hypo clearing agent with TF-4 fixer, just water. I've used it with both film & paper developers (including dektol, Agfa Neutol, PF130, Sprint) with no apparent problems.
    van Huyck Photo
    "Progress is only a direction, and it's often the wrong direction"

  4. #4

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    How about with Ilfrod Rapid Fix. Can you skip the stop bath and just use a water one instead? It seems that if I use the TF-4 then no problem. I just order the Darkroom and Film Cookbooks today from amazon so I hope these will help clear a lot of this up.


    Thanks again,

    kev

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjsphoto
    OK,

    AS I have been reading more and more I see that with Pyrocat-HD you do not need a chemical stop bath or Hypo-Clearign agent if you use Tf-4 or a Rapid fixer like Ilford.

    So my question is that if I use a developer like Rodinal or TMax can I use T4F fixer? Also if I use say Ilford rapid fix do I need a chemical stop bath or will water work and in this case will I need a hypo-clearing agent?

    Right now I am using;

    TMAx developer - Changing to Rodinal once I run out.
    Koday Indicator stop bath ( Do I need this if I use a Rapid fix or TF-4 )
    Ilford Rapid Fixer
    Koday Hypo Clearing Agent ( Do I need this. If not do I need to wash negs for 30 minutes )
    Ilford Wetting agent.

    I just am a bit puzzled as I have been reading and notice how with a non-Hardening fixer (TF-4) you do not need a stop or HYPO-clearing agent. But will this hold true for all developers being used?

    Any advice is appreciated as I am trying to get my head artound this before I buy chemistry.

    I tell you what I learned back in College 15 years didnt teach me anything like this. It was D76, Stop bath (chemical), Fixer, Hypoclearing, wash.

    Thanks again,

    Kev
    You wrote:"I just am a bit puzzled as I have been reading and notice how with a non-Hardening fixer (TF-4) you do not need a stop or HYPO-clearing agent. But will this hold true for all developers being used?"

    With regard to the stop bath, for almost all film developers the answer is YES, it holds true. You do not need an acid stop bath

    The exceptions are extremely active developers with very short development times (3 minutes or less). It is unlikely that you will be using developers of this type. With fast film, undiluted D76 and high solution temperatures you might encounter this problem, but you can always dilute D76 1:1 or 1:3 and avoid the problem that way (dilution will extend the development time).

    It is also true that you do not need to use Hypo Clearing Agent with film. It doesn't hurt to use it, but it increases your washing time. However, it can be helpful for removing the red antihalation dye that Kodak puts into TMX & TMY films.

    With regard to washing times, I recommend that you follow Ilford's washing procedure. Here is a link that gives an independent evaluation: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTri...gra.html#fwash

    Download the .pdf file, it has a lot of good stuff in it about washing film and prints. You may want to skip the science in the first 6 pages and go to the recommended procedures in pages 7 and 8.
    Tom Hoskinson
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    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  6. #6

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    Hello Tom,

    Thank you very much for the information. One problem I have is that right now I cannot get my cold water out of the tap to drop below 70 deg. F. So if I do a N-1 I can down to about 5 min depending on the film I am using with the TMAX developer.

    But it seems fro the above message that TMax is not a fast developing developer unless of course the water is hot then the time increases.

    Now for a water stop if I am using trays or even a rotary process do you just put the film in the tray and agitate fro about 30 seconds or will the water itself just stop the processing? And how long do you need to put it in the stop (water) for? For rotary I figure that the drum rolling will give it what it needs.

    Also I was searching for the link you mentioned about OLE home brew fixer. DO you know the link and with his home brew would you need a acid stop or hypo clearing or just water.

    Thank you again,

    Kev

  7. #7
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    I use water stop bath & Ilford rapid fixer no problem. Ilford has an interesting water-saving post-fixer bath method as well. Check their website.

    Jeanette

  8. #8

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    Kevin, I rinse the film in water for about 1 minute before going into the stop bath. I do the same for both tray and tank processing.

    Ole's home brew alkaline fixer bath works just the same as TF-4 and Ilford Rapid Fixer. No stop bath needed and no Hypo Clearing Agent (HCA) needed - just water. Send Ole a PM for his formula (he's an APUG member - with chemical expertise).
    For the chemicals to mix Ole's fixer (and other photo chemistry) here are a couple of resources:

    Artcraft: http://www.artcraftchemicals.com/
    Artcraft will sell you photographic chemicals and will also mix photographic formulas for you.

    The Chemistry Store: www.chemistrystore.com/
    Another good source for photo chemicals.
    Tom Hoskinson
    ______________________________

    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  9. #9

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    Thanks will have to PM him. I am a bit confused now. I tought that you go from developer tray to tray of water that is the stop. So above you go into a stop bath? What does the stop bath consist of and how long?

    Thanks again,

    Kev

  10. #10
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    New forum suggestion?

    just water. Send Ole a PM for his formula (he's an APUG member - with chemical expertise).
    Maybe we can have a new forum here just on chemical recipes? I've always wanted to get the Film and Darkroom cookbook books but I can always find someone who knows something (after a lengthy search). So maybe we can start posting some recipes in a new forum? It'll save me money by not buying the books

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