Intensifying negatives with Selenium toner

[Jim Noel]

If you need to gain more contrast than is possible with selenium, sepia tone them.

[Ian Grant]

makes the neg a bit grainier and will really make your highlights jump out at ya. also great for salt printing .

Actually the grain is less obvious because you are printing with a lower grade paper/filter than previous.

Ian

[Ian Grant]

If you need to gain more contrast than is possible with selenium, sepia tone them.

A Sulphide Selenium toner like Ilford IT03 or the similar Agfa Ansco Flemish toner is better than a sepia toner as it's redder, less yellow.

Ian

[Michael R 1974]

Hang on a minute here. I thought the benefit of selenium intensifying small format negatives is to get more contrast (say N+1) without the increase in grain that would result from N+1 development. Reading the Ansel Adams stuff, I was under the impression the grain structure of the negative does not change when intensified with Selenium.

[clayne]

A Sulphide Selenium toner like Ilford IT03 or the similar Agfa Ansco Flemish toner is better than a sepia toner as it's redder, less yellow.

Ian

If i'm not mistaken this (and the other post) should apply to VC only.

Hang on a minute here. I thought the benefit of selenium intensifying small format negatives is to get more contrast (say N+1) without the increase in grain that would result from N+1 development. Reading the Ansel Adams stuff, I was under the impression the grain structure of the negative does not change when intensified with Selenium.

It doesn't really. If it does, it's not perceivable at all.

[Ian Grant]

If i'm not mistaken this (and the other post) should apply to VC only.

They will work with films as well, more because of the colour shift tahn anything else. This is why Uranium intensifiers were used, the negative becomes quite red in colour.

Although the visual density of Selenium Sulphide toner or Uranium is less the fact that they act like red filters means with all &W papers the effects are very much greater.

But selenium Sulphide would be better with VC than plain Sulphide because of the redder/purplish shift.

Ian

[clayne]

Although the visual density of Selenium Sulphide toner or Uranium is less the fact that they act like red filters means with all &W papers the effects are very much greater.

But selenium Sulphide would be better with VC than plain Sulphide because of the redder/purplish shift.

Ian

Yeah I was really referring to the last part when I meant "applies to VC paper" - in that it will produce the most inherent contrast shift due to the paper's natural sensitivity to different spectrums.

But yeah, in general I agree - reducing intensity of light from the most dense portions of the negative will result in behavior similar to a negative with increased highlight density but without the increased base fog from the shadows (Se/Su won't affect these on the negative). Of course with plain Se toner the density shift alone will also affect the contrast (what the entire discussion is really about).

Although, I have to wonder what practical arena one would actually desire the contrast shift of polysulphide toning negatives. Those would have to be some seriously flat negatives. Usually Se is enough - especially combined with print contrast options.

[fschifano]

Done it a LOT.... I always re-fix the negs after toning them .... worked for Ansel and Al Weber for a few years way way back and they did/do this... in case there is any silver bromide left on the negs and it can be done more than once!

Logan

I've done it on occasion and it works, though I've never gotten as much as a whole paper grade's worth of contrast out of it. The dilution doesn't matter so much as long as you compensate with more time for a weaker solution. You can let it go to completion or not, that's up to you. You can watch the change, and stop it when you want by pulling the film and washing it off.

As far as re-fixing the negative afterward, that makes no sense at all. Kodak's Rapid Selenium Toner, indeed any selenium toner, already has quite a bit of fixer in it in the form ammonium thiosulfate (27% by weight for the concentrate). Re-fixing after that? Why? There are no more silver halides left in the film after you've run it through the fix the first time, and the toner works on the developed silver by changing it to silver selenide. It does not act like a potassium ferricyanide bleach by changing the developed silver back into silver halide. You could optionally use a sodium sulfite based wash aid like Kodak's Hypo Clearing Agent, Ilford Washaid, or Heico Permawash to help clear the film of excess thiosulfate, but it's completely unnecessary and you must run the film through a wash cycle. Post wash treatment with Photoflo or a similar wetting agent is not necessary, but highly recommended.

[paulie]

try it and see, its only a negative not life or death

[Michael R 1974]

It's funny, every time I process film it feels like life and death!