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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hoskinson
    Yes, Agfa-120 is essentially identical to Agfa Neutol WA.
    [...]
    Dilute 1:5 for warm black tones
    Dilute 1:4 for brown-black tones

    Alright, I didn't realize that the formula was for a stock solution. That puts it in the 40 cent per liter category (1:4 dilution)... Not bad at all.
    And the formula is simple enough that I can probably mix a fresh batch whenever I need one (or mix an extra one and keep it botled until needed). I'm really not chemically inclined, but by reading a little of http://www.jackspcs.com I noticed that Sodium Sulfite helps to keep the Hidroquinone form spoiling. That would mean that in the very least, a topped off bottle of stock solution would last a few weeks, right?

    Also, by essentially the same as Neutol WA, do you mean the same, or similar? I currently use Neutol WA, diluted 1:7 IIRC... If the 120 developer gives me more brown tones, it might be the answer.

    Thanks for the quick response,

  2. #22

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    Yes, one of the functions of the sodium sulfite is to preserve the Hydroquinone. Given the chemical concentrations in the formula, the shelf life of the stock solution should be pretty good. As the solution ages, the Hydroquinone oxidation products will turn it brown, then black - so you will have a visual signal.

    I posted some additional information in a PM.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  3. #23

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    Here's the latest PM I've sent to Tom, I think it might interest anyone else who is reading this thread.

    Tom mentioned the MSDS sheet published by Agfa, and how it implied great similarities between Neutol WA and Agfa-120.

    I then looked for the MSDS sheet, and being the annoying brat that I am, proceeded to bug Tom about it.

    The reason I'm posting this is that I truly think that it might help someone else if they ever find themselves wanting to try out Agfa-120.

    And I'd like to thank Tom for his unearthly patience with me, and for his help in this matter.

    Sorry if this whole post sounds like a disclaimer, I guess I've been in a disclaimer kind of mood lately...

    Tom, here's the ingredients I found on the Agfa MSDS (thanks for bringing it up, BTW):

    Potassium sulfite 1-5 %
    Potassium carbonate 1-5 %
    Hydroquinone 0-1 %
    Phenidone 0-1 %
    Potassium bromide 0-1 %
    EDTA, Tetrasodium salt 0-1 %
    Water (To 100%)

    Wouldn't the adition of Potassium sulfite, Phenidone, Tetrasodium salt, and Pot Bromide, along with the exclusion of Sodium Sulfite, make for a significantly different chemical than Agfa120?
    And isn't the Pot Carbonate in the 8% range in the 120?


    I'm not asking this to be stubborn, but out of sheer ignorance...

    here's the link to the MSDS I found:

    http://www.madsens.com.au/new/darkr...%20solution.pdf

  4. #24

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    Jay,

    Thanks, but I'm really pumped about the Agfa 120... It seems to be exactly what I need, according to what I've read about it, and it seems different enough chemically to Neutol WA to where the things I've read might be true.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andre R. de Avillez
    Here's the latest PM I've sent to Tom, I think it might interest anyone else who is reading this thread.

    Tom mentioned the MSDS sheet published by Agfa, and how it implied great similarities between Neutol WA and Agfa-120.

    I then looked for the MSDS sheet, and being the annoying brat that I am, proceeded to bug Tom about it.

    The reason I'm posting this is that I truly think that it might help someone else if they ever find themselves wanting to try out Agfa-120.

    And I'd like to thank Tom for his unearthly patience with me, and for his help in this matter.

    Sorry if this whole post sounds like a disclaimer, I guess I've been in a disclaimer kind of mood lately...
    The difference between potassium and sodium salts in this case will probably not be in the color or gradations. It was easier for the Germans to get potassium salts. The EDTA is for water softening and could be left out if you use soft or demineralized water.
    Gadget Gainer

  6. #26

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    Yes, the original German Agfa formula for Agfa 120 calls for both Potassium Carbonate and Potassium Sulfite. The German Agfa 123 formula is identical to Agfa 120 with the addition of Potassium Bromide and claims browner tones as a result. I would not expect the use of Sodium salts to cause a color difference.

    I use "German Agfa" to distinguish from "USA Agfa" which used some of the same formula numbers with different chemistry.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdef
    Andre,

    I hope the Agfa 120 works out for you. I had been using Agfa Neutol WA before switching to the PG/PQ developer, and while similar, I much prefer the PG/PQ, and as I noted above, I expect the image to warm with dilution, which will aslo bring the cost/liter down into the 10-25 cents/liter range. If I could get my scanner to work, I could post some images made from negatives and paper developed in PG/PQ. Good luck, and I look forward to seeing your images posted.
    Jay
    Jay, I have been developing Kodak TMY in Pat Gainer's PC-TEA with excellent results. I have done some Azo contact printing with PC-TEA as well. I can get a wide range of tones with it by adding Benzotriazole and I can manipulate the contrast with a combination of Benzotriazole and dilution.

    Lord knows what the shelf life is - but it is LOOOOONG!
    Tom Hoskinson
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