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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by juan
    It's interesting that you got warmer tones from Amidol than 130. I got cold tones from Michael's amidol formula (using distilled water) - and warmer tones with 130 (the kit from Photographers Formulary.) I wonder if the glycol is the variable, or something else.

    I tried Rodinal with Azo a couple of times. The first time, I used a dilution of 1:20, I believe, and thought the results were soot and chalk. Later, I tried 1:10 and liked the results better. Someone on this forum was using Rodinal with good results. Maybe he'll jump in.
    juan
    Hi Juan, I am virtually certain that the restrainer (KBr) quantity is the variable.

    I mix all my chemistry with 18 megaohm deionized water (continuous quality monitoring) so that shouldn't be a factor.

    I made a mass spectrometer run on a sample of the Glycin powder and it is the real stuff - high purity, too.

    I mixed my Ansco 130 (and my PPPD) without KBr. I developed several work prints and observed high developer activity and warm tones (warmer than the MS Amidol).

    Then I added 6 ml of 10% KBr to the Ansco 130. The developer activity slowed down and the tones went to blue/black (deep blacks - very nice). The prints have a lot of visual "snap."

    I expect that if I use 2ml of 10% KBr per liter of working solution Ansco 130 I will get a warmer toned image than the MS Amidol. According to the literature, I can lower also the contrast with Ansco 130 by increasing the dilution.

    Time for a second round of tests!
    Tom Hoskinson
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  2. #12
    juan's Avatar
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    The KBr cold be it. The Formulary 130 has 5.5g KBr in the 1-liter kit.
    juan

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by juan
    The KBr cold be it. The Formulary 130 has 5.5g KBr in the 1-liter kit.
    juan
    Excellent pun, Juan.

    Yes, I put twice that amount of KBr into my working developer. I won't call it a mistake - just serendipity.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  4. #14
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    It might be cheaper to use an essence of Rodinal. The magic of Rodinal is in its concentration and use of p-aminophenol HCl. This formula came from a Air Force photography manual of 1941.

    p-aminophenol HCl 7 grams
    sodium sulfite (desicated) 50 grams
    sodium carbonate (anhydrous) 50 grams
    water to 1 liter

    It was specified for tropical use on film. No change up to 80 F. Add sodium sulphate above 80 F. Should work for paper as well.
    Gadget Gainer

  5. #15
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    Any idea where to buy reasonable quantities of p-aminophenol HCl? A quick look at the usual suspects, and a quick Googling, turn up nothing except site dealing in hundreds of kilograms.
    juan

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by juan
    Any idea where to buy reasonable quantities of p-aminophenol HCl? A quick look at the usual suspects, and a quick Googling, turn up nothing except site dealing in hundreds of kilograms.
    juan
    I have a sealed, 1 pound brown glass jar of it that I bought some time ago as a hedge against Agfa stopping production of Rodinal. I think it came from Baker, but I'll take a look.

    Photographer's Formulary lists it for $41.00 a pound and they also list it in various smaller quantities.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  7. #17
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    Ah, it's under the "A" not under the "P"
    juan

  8. #18
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    I had some p-aminophenol from P. F. and tried 1/2 tablespoon of that with a tablespoon each of sulfite and carbonate in a liter for a quickie. It needed to be diluted 1:1 to resemble the potency of working strength Dektol. A print from 35 mm on Arista VC FB showed good tones, but I have no AZO to test it on.

    This was the plain p-aminophanol, no HCl. The p-aminophenol HCl I had in stock (no wonder Kodak calle it Kodelon) had turned so black that I couldn't see a print thorugh a half inch of it
    Gadget Gainer

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer
    I had some p-aminophenol from P. F. and tried 1/2 tablespoon of that with a tablespoon each of sulfite and carbonate in a liter for a quickie. It needed to be diluted 1:1 to resemble the potency of working strength Dektol. A print from 35 mm on Arista VC FB showed good tones, but I have no AZO to test it on.

    This was the plain p-aminophanol, no HCl. The p-aminophenol HCl I had in stock (no wonder Kodak calle it Kodelon) had turned so black that I couldn't see a print thorugh a half inch of it
    Hi Pat, I'll give it a try with Azo.

    Have you tried dissolving p-aminophenol in glycol or TEA?
    Tom Hoskinson
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  10. #20
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    Yes, but I don't remember the results. I can try again. IIRC, the HCl was more soluble. Actually, if you can humble yourself as I have to using teaspoon measurements, It will be just about as quick to mix up the stuff in water solution as needed. I would probably play with the amount of sulfite, and probably use ascorbic acid with little or no sulfite to see what effect it has on print quality. I know there is a degree of synergism between p-aminophenol and AA as I found with Rodinal and AA.

    It would be nice if a mixture were found that mimiced amidol at less cost and longer shelf life. I have an old 5X7 view camera that I seldom use. Maybe I should get it out and get some Azo while I still can.
    Gadget Gainer

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