Rodinal and tray development

[Usagi]

I haven't had reliable results when developing sheet films in Rodinal 1+50 or 1+100 using tray method. Same applies to the tank development (dip'n'dunk).

One advice that was given was that Rodinal is not robust enough for such development.
Is there anything real facts behind that? What makes dip'n'dunk or tray development so different compared to drum developing and spiral + tank used in roll films?

With D-76 I haven't had any problems so there is some difference but I just cannot believe that developer could limit developing methods...

[2F/2F]

I've developed single 5x7 sheets with minimal agitation in trays at very high dilution (1:200), and they have turned out without technical problems. I don't know why a less diluted solution would not work perfectly in a tray. What sort of problems are you having?

[Doubleday]

Hi, I've developed up to 4 4x5 sheets in tray using R09 (the new name of Rodinal) at 1:100 whithout any problem. I think it's important the amount of developer, at least 600 cc / 1 liter and diluting it immediately before use.


Massimo.

[Usagi]

Uneven development and occasional streaking. These are visible mostly on photographs of subjects with large sky.

The result is similar that can occur with insufficient agitation.
So the agitation can be one reason.
I agitate by shuffling stack of 6 sheets withing 30 seconds. If there's less than 6 sheets, then I keep same pace but let the shuffled sheets wait until full 30 seconds is reached.
For one sheet it would give about 5 sec for agitation and then 25 sec for waiting.

[George Collier]

Not sure what the solution is for shuffling a stack that takes less than 30 sec, but I would not let a stack sit still in a tray situation at all. It would probably be better to keep them moving and shorten the time a bit if you feel they are moving too fast.
I have never had uneven development with tray method.

[Greg Davis]

I agree, the streaks could be from letting the sheet(s) sit in the tray without agitation. If you have less than six, shuffle slower so that each sheet is given an equal amount of time between moves. For example, if you are developing 4 sheets, move one every 7.5 seconds to get through the stack in 30 seconds. Kodak gives instructions on developing one sheet at a time in a tray, so find them and follow it for even development.

[Shawn Dougherty]

I use Rodinal at 1:100 (for N development) with my 4x5 sheet film. 6 sheets at a time in a slosher tray with agitation for the first minute. For the remaining time I gently pick up two corners of the tray at the top of each minute and one corner at the bottom of each minute. I've never had streaking or unevenness....

[Usagi]

Yes, It's highly possible that straking is caused by insufficient agitation.
For four sheets, I could slow down pace, perhaps for three sheets (move one every 10 seconds).

But how to handle two or one sheet? I have always found out development times by using 5-6 sheets so the development times would be different when there's only couple of sheets (or one) to agitate.

Some uses 'dummy sheets' to get enough sheets to shuffle - but I'd rather not.

When developing one or two sheets, the pace have to be faster to get each sheet moved at least once per 10 seconds.
That alters contrast and I have to compensate it somehow.

Perhaps it's accurate enough if I do simple developing test (using step wedge) and compare the result to the results I have got with slower agitation. Then I got factor that I can apply to my known and tested development times to get proper contrast.

[Greg Davis]

Two sheets are the same as with more, you are still agitating by shuffling. the times do not change because each sheet, whether 2 or 6, are being moved once every 30 seconds. With one sheet only Kodak describes it as such:

Agitating Sheet Film in Trays
Presoaking sheets in water yields more even development,
especially when multiple sheets of film are processed
together. Even a single sheet should be presoaked so that
the rate of development will be the same as multiple sheets
processed together.
To process a single sheet:
1. Fill a tray with water that is at the same temperature
as the developer.
2. Immerse the film in the water, making sure it is totally
covered with solution. Rock the tray occasionally for
about 1 minute, then transfer the film to the developer.
3. Slip the film into the developer. Rock the tray
immediately to make sure the film is covered with
solution.
4. Agitate the film by first raising the left side of the tray
about 3/4inch (2cm). Lower it smoothly, and then
immediately raise and lower the side nearest to you.
Next, raise and lower the right-hand side, then the
near side again. This agitation cycle takes about
8seconds.
5. Agitate continuously throughout the development
time.
6. At the end of the development time, drain the sheet
for a few seconds and transfer it to the stop bath. To
avoid contaminating the developer with stop bath,
use one hand for lifting the sheet from the developer
and the other hand for placing it in the stop bath.

For more than one they state:

To process two to six sheets together:
1. Fill a tray with water that is at the same temperature
as the developer.
2. Immerse the sheets one at a time, emulsion side up, in
the tray of water. Make sure that each sheet is
covered with water before inserting the next one.
Agitate by moving the bottom sheet to the top of the
stack every few seconds. Go through the stack twice.
Be careful that the corners of the sheet you are
handling do not scratch the sheet under it.
3. Take the bottom sheet out of the tray of water, drain it
for a few seconds, and place it in the developer,
emulsion side up. Make sure that the sheet is covered
with developer. Transfer the rest of the sheets to the
developer in the same way. Interleave the stack, from
bottom to top, until development is complete.
Note: When you use interleaving agitation, go through the
stack of sheets completely. Rotate the first sheet in the
developer 180° from the rest of the stack so that the notch
is at the opposite end. This identifies it as the first sheet; be
sure that it is the first sheet you remove from each solution.

[2F/2F]

I'd suggest a pre soak for all the sheets if using the shuffling method, shuffling in the pre soak bath just as you will during the rest of the process.

I'd also suggest using a larger tray than that which physically fits the film. This will give you plenty of developer to work with, plenty of room to shuffle, and will minimize the effects of any non-random flow patterns that develop in the tray. For instance, I'd use 5x7 trays for 4x5 film, and 8x10 trays for 5x7 film. If I shot 8x10, I'd use an 11x14 tray. (For 2x3 sheet film, and when I had a 3x4 camera, I'd use 4x5 trays, though it took me a while to track a set down, and they eventually ended up in my hands by chance. I never actually found a set for sale.)

This is a continuous agitation technique. I've had ruined film by letting it sit just a short amount of time. Be especially attentive to continuous agitation for the first half of the development time.

Because it is a different agitation technique than you use by doing one sheet at a time in a tray, you may find that you need to change your development times to get your intended contrast.

I try to vary the direction of the draining. I drain from opposite corners each time through the stack.

You can mark the first sheet submerged with a sharp blade on the edge (Making an extra notch near the notch code is one way to do it.), or by turning it 90 degrees from the rest of the stack. I slice a top corner or two on the first sheet, and also turn it 90 degrees.

Development time will be staggered with this method. I put in a new sheet every 30 seconds, and when it is time to stop the development, I pull out the first sheet after the normal developing time, the second after 30 additional seconds, and so on. Therefore, for each sheet beyond one, I increase the time I set on the timer by 30 seconds. For example, if the developing time is nine minutes, and I have four sheets, I set the timer to 10:30 (30 seconds additional for every sheet beyond the first). When nine minutes is up (clock hits 1:30), I take out the marked sheet, then the second sheet at 1:00, and so on. A slick way to do this to help avoid confusion is to rig two Gra-Lab timers together, so that the first timer hitting zero triggers the second timer to start counting. For example, with this method, the first timer would be set to 9 minutes, and the second to 1:30. When the first timer hits zero, you pull the first sheet, then pull the other sheets in order every 30 seconds on the other timer. This might be convenient for some, even though all it does is prevent you from having to subtract one time from another and remember the difference.

Because of the staggered stopping meaning that fingers will be going into and out of different solutions, and then repeating, I don't use a stop bath, to prevent contamination of the developer from my fingers. I use a tray of water, with a stream running into it if possible.

Make sure that the agitation is coming only from shuffling. IME, any agitation by rocking can easily scratch the emulsion (and can also turn the sheets, so you lose track of which is the first).

I have pretty much given up on the shuffle method personally. I was never able to get consistently scratch-free film, no matter how careful I was. However, by following the tips above, I was able to get nicely developed and even negatives.