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  1. #41
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Another post with good advice , what is lfn though? I have only used Kodak pf with over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Noel View Post
    Photo-flo on the reels will become a catalyst and somewhere along the line will begin to cause the problems you are having.
    Never put reels in Photo Flo.
    The only thing to do now is scrub the reels in very hat water with a stiff brush.
    Throw away the PF and get some LFN - the problem is solved.
    When you have hundreds of students going through the darkroom ieach year for 20 years it doesn't take long to know what works and what doesn't.

  2. #42
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Ian , I rarely disagree with you but I am with Jim here. I have found problems with pf on the reels and stopped doing this very early in my career.
    I have found a buildup and a the possibility of not being able to roll the film on the reels.
    The solution is a major cleanup with hot water and therefore we hand scroll the film through the pf .

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    I disagree completely with you and Bob about not putting reels in Phtoflo, not all products are the same though.

    However I strongly advise good washing of reels with hot water, there's also a slow build up of gelatin, I soak my Paterson reels in biological washing powder once every 6 months or so.

    The problem with long chain detergents is they don't wash off properly with cold water.

    So either do as Bob advises or wash the reels well in warm/hot water after being in Photoflo, both ways prevents any detergent build up.

    Ian

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    I have found problems with pf on the reels and stopped doing this very early in my career.
    I have found a buildup and a the possibility of not being able to roll the film on the reels.
    The solution is a major cleanup with hot water and therefore we hand scroll the film through the pf .
    While I'm simply a home user, not a large volume guy at all, I find that occasionally stuffing my reels in the dishwasher top rack with no soap in the machine keeps them pretty clean.

    I put my glassware on the bottom rack, the plastic stuff on the top rack, set the machine for normal with no heat drying, leave out the detergent, and let it run through the cycle.

    I concede this isn't really feasible for a commercial lab, but it works for me.
    Michael Batchelor
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    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  4. #44
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    Ian , I rarely disagree with you but I am with Jim here. I have found problems with pf on the reels and stopped doing this very early in my career.
    I have found a buildup and a the possibility of not being able to roll the film on the reels.
    The solution is a major cleanup with hot water and therefore we hand scroll the film through the pf .
    Bob, I agree with the build up particularly with Paterson & similar reels but my experience is that much of this is gelatin and that builds up regardless.

    There's also big differences in wetting agents and water quality which may be a reason why we & others differ in practice. Even when I worked commercially we always kept films on the reels with no issues. I'd add I've never used Kodak Phot-Flo though.

    There's no right or wrong it's what works for individuals ultimately.

    Ian

  5. #45
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Water quality, is a biggie which adds its own complexitys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Bob, I agree with the build up particularly with Paterson & similar reels but my experience is that much of this is gelatin and that builds up regardless.

    There's also big differences in wetting agents and water quality which may be a reason why we & others differ in practice. Even when I worked commercially we always kept films on the reels with no issues. I'd add I've never used Kodak Phot-Flo though.

    There's no right or wrong it's what works for individuals ultimately.

    Ian

  6. #46
    fotch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    .......I have found a buildup and a the possibility of not being able to roll the film on the reels.
    The solution is a major cleanup with hot water and therefore we hand scroll the film through the pf .

    Its easier to scroll the film through the PF than to hand scrub reels. That is what I do also.
    Items for sale or trade at www.Camera35.com

  7. #47
    brian steinberger's Avatar
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    Ok, so I'm planning on trying LFN. I've ordered some. Is the key to take the reel out of the tank when finished washing, fill the tank with distilled water, put two drops or so of LFN, mix, then dip the film? This is could have been my problem all along, as I would always empty the tank after the wash, pour distilled water in over the reel, then put photo-flo (too much apparently) in on top of that and lift the film in and out of the tank a few times. I always assumed doing so would mix the photo-flo into the water.

  8. #48
    brian steinberger's Avatar
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    I'm also assuming my stains on the film are from too much photo-flo, or improperly mixing photo-flo. I may still dip the film in stop bath though, as a last desperate attempt to save the negative. Thanks so much for your guys help!

  9. #49

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    Brian,

    Just a note that on average I tend to have the most drying issues with 35mm, '120' somewhere in the middle, and sheet film the least.

    Tom

  10. #50
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian steinberger View Post
    Ok, so I'm planning on trying LFN. I've ordered some. Is the key to take the reel out of the tank when finished washing, fill the tank with distilled water, put two drops or so of LFN, mix, then dip the film? This is could have been my problem all along, as I would always empty the tank after the wash, pour distilled water in over the reel, then put photo-flo (too much apparently) in on top of that and lift the film in and out of the tank a few times. I always assumed doing so would mix the photo-flo into the water.
    Brian:

    I use a separate plastic container for the Photo-Flo step. I mix the Photo-Flo working solution up while the film is washing (12 drops from a small drop dispenser per 200ml of water, well mixed) and take the film off the reels before putting it into the Photo-Flo solution.

    The film spends a couple of minutes in the Photo-Flo solution - enough time to get the reels and tank washed and draining to dry .
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2



 

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