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  1. #21
    Aurum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fschifano View Post
    And when you get down to it, what good is teaching the kids how to develop film without the ability to make prints? Without a full on darkroom, all they'll see are negatives, and that's not going to capture the typical kid's imagination. I even have reservations about them being even moderately enthused about monochrome images. Of course if you have access to a film scanner, you can do something with film that might interest the kids.
    Way I'm looking at this is this:
    Digital printing will probably have to be the sole option for now, as this is a junior school. Printers are available, a darkroom is not, so we have to make do with what is provided. I'm offering the option to get film developed, and scanned so the kids will have a physical print to go home with that was based on film rather than digital.
    My thoughts are that if you can teach a kid to see and frame with a small cheap camera, and encourage them to look at the world, that is step one. Step one outside my household will probably be digital. Next step is to show them something different, and to show them what film is capable of. That gives them the wow factor that encourages them to take more. Then, once the chemical hurdles are gotten over and they've properly been bitten, they can see what proper print manipulation can do, and I can guarantee that it will show photoshop as a bit tacky
    As for my kids, they already do shoot film, and can handle compacts and 35mm SLR's with ease and generate good shots. They can see the difference in quality between film and digital, as they shoot the latter as well.

    Just need to get them into 120 film, but they're not convinced about that yet, as they don't get the patience bit of setting up a very old camera. They do like the results, just find the extra effort a PITA.

    As the jesuits said "get 'em young..."
    "Flatter Me, and I May Not Believe You. Criticize Me, and I May Not like You. Ignore Me, and I May Not Forgive You. Encourage Me, and I Will Not Forget You."

  2. #22
    jp498's Avatar
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    120 doesn't need an old camera. There are cheap holga/lomo options for someone who can't manage antiques.

    I'd think hands-on use would create comfort and show them the alternative. Then they can learn the art/seeing aspects of photography without the limits of a single technology.

    I'd suggest 4x5 paper pinhole, the load them into a combiplan tank in the changing bag. That will develop a lot quicker than film and will be super cheap.

  3. #23
    hrst's Avatar
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    I agree on XTOL.

    Try to get a neutral pH sodium thiosulphate fixer. It's slower than ammonium based, but doesn't need to be acidic and still doesn't have any ammonia smell.

    Use WATER as a stop bath. At least three changes.

    Teach them how to handle chemicals and not to drink them, just like with any household cleaning agents. You can use this analogy.

    What do you mean by "[XTOL] sometimes going off without warning"? I bet it's about the "sudden death syndrome" caused by iron content too high in water, but it's still about months, not days or weeks.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurum View Post
    As the jesuits said "get 'em young..."
    So you know about the Jesuits. I had some time with them myself. Great bunch of guys, really. They knew what they were doing and I'm eternally grateful to them.
    Frank Schifano

  5. #25
    Aurum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp498 View Post
    120 doesn't need an old camera. There are cheap holga/lomo options for someone who can't manage antiques.

    I'd think hands-on use would create comfort and show them the alternative. Then they can learn the art/seeing aspects of photography without the limits of a single technology.

    I'd suggest 4x5 paper pinhole, the load them into a combiplan tank in the changing bag. That will develop a lot quicker than film and will be super cheap.
    For my kids, they don't get the whole art side of the Holga experience (They think its a bit pants) The problem with the 120 equipment I have is that they have to cock shutters before firing, the film wind on isn't interlocked, and with the Lubitel 166B TLR I have, they just can't handle the whole "framing in reverse" thing (so I'm not planning on getting a LF set up just yet...)
    A rolleicord or Rolleiflex on the other hand where they don't have to spot faint print through a red window may be a better bet.
    The pinhole idea is something I'm seriously considering, especially with the availability of Ilford positive paper, which Ag Photographic hold in stock I believe. As they're local, its an easy choice to source

    Quote Originally Posted by hrst
    What do you mean by "[XTOL] sometimes going off without warning"? I bet it's about the "sudden death syndrome" caused by iron content too high in water, but it's still about months, not days or weeks.
    Xtol is something I have no experience of using, mainly due to lack of time to play, and it hasn't been easily available to buy in local suppliers in the past. D76/ID-11, Ilfosol 3 and R09 have been, so thats what I've used and become comfortable with.
    As there have been reports of issues in the past, I have to take note of that, and if those issues have been left behind or can be worked around, even better. Thats why I come onto APUG- to get information, which I've got in spades with this thread.
    I'm certainly considering trying out Caffenol C, and the PaRodinal systems, for fun at home. Thanks for the links and heads up

    Another thought (probably more for show and tell) might be to shoot a roll of 6x9 around the local area, then reverse process it. I can guarantee none of them will have seen transparencies THAT size before
    "Flatter Me, and I May Not Believe You. Criticize Me, and I May Not like You. Ignore Me, and I May Not Forgive You. Encourage Me, and I Will Not Forget You."

  6. #26

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    Freestyle has their Eco-Pro line of B&W chemistry, which they claim to be "designed to provide the best possible quality, while reducing toxicity t the lowest achievable level."

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdonovan View Post
    Freestyle has their Eco-Pro line of B&W chemistry, which they claim to be "designed to provide the best possible quality, while reducing toxicity t the lowest achievable level."
    But that would cost a fortune to ship to the UK.
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  8. #28
    Aurum's Avatar
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    Always the problem with Freestyle, great products, good prices but the shipping always kills it stone dead especially on liquid chems
    "Flatter Me, and I May Not Believe You. Criticize Me, and I May Not like You. Ignore Me, and I May Not Forgive You. Encourage Me, and I Will Not Forget You."

  9. #29

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    Always a problem with anyone shipping liquid chemistry. Let's face it guys, you're paying to have a lot of water shipped. Water takes up a lot of space and is heavy. The problem is only exacerbated as the distances grow. That's exactly why I prefer to source any liquid chemicals of any appreciable size locally.
    Frank Schifano

  10. #30
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    Stop bath is fairly harmless at working dilution. Obviously don't let your kid play with the glacial concentrate until he's older.
    Fixer is harmless.
    Developer is your only concern. Metol is the main concern of most. Usually just doing this near a sink so that one can wash one's hands off is good enough. Typical developing routines won't exercise a large risk here.

    Also it goes without saying: don't drink any of this stuff.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

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