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  1. #11
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Standing development is also about boosting micro contrast, and general contrast, when you're photographing low contrast scenes.

    ....

    I got negatives that printed well on Grade 3 paper from scenes that were foggy and low contrast, as well as scenes that were fairly brightly lit in the middle of the day with normal contrast.
    So, essentially this was a "push" development, however the stand development used to control or limit grain sizes? Less agitation, so finer grain? Do I understand you right for these specific images?
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    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

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  2. #12
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    The negative making the print on the left was a scene of flat lighting. Very flat.
    The negative making the print on the right was in normal contrast lighting if you discount the rising sun.
    They were both developed for the same amount of time, believe it or not. So it evened out the contrast range between the two negatives - automatically within the process.

    - Thomas

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco B View Post
    So, essentially this was a "push" development, however the stand development used to control or limit grain sizes? Less agitation, so finer grain? Do I understand you right for these specific images?
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  3. #13
    c6h6o3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vedmak View Post
    if the question is clear tonal separation in extreme lighting conditions, pyro developers will blow the socks off the stand development. In one of his books saint Ansel had a picture of a light bulb developed in pyro developer, try to do that one on a working light bulb with Xtol
    The negative for the picture you mention was developed in Windisch Catechol, a pyro based developer. The reducing agent in this formula is pyrocatechin, which is different from the reducer in PMK, pyrogallol. Pyrocatechin is also the reducer in Pyrocat HD which many fine printers use for semi-stand or minimal agitation development.

    It's not a case of stand development OR pyro development; I know many photographers who get beautiful results using stand development WITH pyro.
    Jim

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by c6h6o3 View Post
    The negative for the picture you mention was developed in Windisch Catechol, a pyro based developer. The reducing agent in this formula is pyrocatechin, which is different from the reducer in PMK, pyrogallol. Pyrocatechin is also the reducer in Pyrocat HD
    This is a minor point but it's rather confusing when someone uses the term pyro for pyrocatechin when must people will think of pyrogallol when they see pyro. Older literature is particularly bad in this respect. The accepted chemical names are catechol and pyrogallol. Pyrocatechin is a very old name and best left in the past.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  5. #15
    Shawn Dougherty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    This is a minor point but it's rather confusing when someone uses the term pyro for pyrocatechin when must people will think of pyrogallol when they see pyro. Older literature is particularly bad in this respect. The accepted chemical names are catechol and pyrogallol. Pyrocatechin is a very old name and best left in the past.
    As someone who only started foolin' with pyro in 2004... =) Things have changed. In my experience, I'd estimate that 90% or more of those I speak with who use "pyro" use some form of Pyrocat.... Even on the boards it seems to be far and away the most popular - and everyone seems to refer to it as "pyro".

    Have you found differently?

  6. #16
    c6h6o3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Dougherty View Post
    As someone who only started foolin' with pyro in 2004... =) Things have changed. In my experience, I'd estimate that 90% or more of those I speak with who use "pyro" use some form of Pyrocat.... Even on the boards it seems to be far and away the most popular - and everyone seems to refer to it as "pyro".

    Have you found differently?
    I started using PMK about 20 years ago. At that time 'pyro' meant pyrogallol. That's what Adams referred to as pyro in The Negative and other books. If he developed a negative in catechol and used it as an example he would call it that and not 'pyro'. About 10 years ago I started using ABC pyro, which is also pyrogallol based. I've never associated the word 'pyro' with catechol or even Sandy's Pyrocat.

    I think the recent association of 'pyro' with catechol in its many guises is purely the result of Sandy King's choice of name for the groundbreaking developer he invented.

    Gerald: I will henceforth excise the word 'pyrocatechin' from my vocabulary. I place that misnomer in the same class as calling a substance as alkaline as pyrogallol 'pyrogallic acid', which some vendors still do.
    Jim

  7. #17
    Shawn Dougherty's Avatar
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    That does it, I'm just sticking to Rodinal.... this nomenclature is too complicated for me. =)

  8. #18
    stradibarrius's Avatar
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    Rodinal or HC110 are so easy to use and easy to get in my area. I do like XTOL too but HC110 is easier to mix for one shot development.
    "Generalizations are made because they are generally true"
    Flicker http://www.flickr.com/photos/stradibarrius
    website: http://www.dudleyviolins.com
    Barry
    Monroe, GA

  9. #19
    c6h6o3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Dougherty View Post
    That does it, I'm just sticking to Rodinal.... this nomenclature is too complicated for me. =)
    I'll have to try that stuff some day. After all, it was good enough for Brett Weston.
    Jim

  10. #20
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    I am basically on a single developer regime, but recently bought a bottle of Rodinal just to try some standing development again. Call me crazy.
    I'll be sticking to a single developer at least 95% of the time.

    - Thomas

    Quote Originally Posted by c6h6o3 View Post
    I'll have to try that stuff some day. After all, it was good enough for Brett Weston.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

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