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Thread: Glycin anyone?

  1. #1

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    Glycin anyone?

    Just wondering if anyone has experimented with glycin in place of metol or phenidone in combination with either ascorbic acid, hydroquinone or pyrocatechin?

    If so, any suggestions for the approximate ratio of glycin to either metol or phenidone?

    Sandy

  2. #2
    Loose Gravel's Avatar
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    With all the new developer recipes, I've been wondering about glycin. I use PMK and have followed your introduction of pyrocat. This got me to wondering about other, yet undiscovered, recipes, especially with glycin. I understand it is noted to provide very even development. Wouldn't that be nice? After all the hoops I jumped through to get PMK even with drum development, I'd like a developer that is as good and inherently even.

    The answer to your question is, however, that I've done nothing in the darkroom lately. It is on my list when I get there in the fall. I finally found a builder to take over some of my remodeling, so I can get back to the darkroom.

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    clay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    Just wondering if anyone has experimented with glycin in place of metol or phenidone in combination with either ascorbic acid, hydroquinone or pyrocatechin?

    If so, any suggestions for the approximate ratio of glycin to either metol or phenidone?

    Sandy
    I added some glycin at one time to the basic pyrocat recipe. As I recall, it is fairly difficult to get the stuff to dissolve at much more than 5g/100ml. It was sort of like the phenidone in that it took some stirring. It seemed to give a contrast boost, but my attention wavered and I never got around to doing an analytical comparisons. It made the spent developer a really cool purple, though!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    Just wondering if anyone has experimented with glycin in place of metol or phenidone in combination with either ascorbic acid, hydroquinone or pyrocatechin?

    If so, any suggestions for the approximate ratio of glycin to either metol or phenidone?

    Sandy
    No, but I have recently mixed up batches of Agfa 8 (Glycin only) and Ansco 130 (Glycin, Metol, Hydroquinone).

    Agfa 8 film developer

    2 grams per liter of Glycin
    12.5 grams potassium sulfite per liter
    25 grams potassium carbonate per liter

    I have found Agfa 8 to be a nice film developer - it yields very nice, smooth skin tones, for example.

    Ansco 130

    Water (125 degrees F) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 750 ml
    Metol . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.2 g
    Sodium Sulfite (Anhydrous) . . . . . . . . . . . 50 g
    Hydroquinone . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 g
    Sodium Carbonate (Monohydrate) . . . . . . . 78 g
    Potassium Bromide . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.5 g
    Glycin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 g
    Cold Water to make . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 liter

    I found Ansco 130 to be a nice film developer when diluted 1:20

    It seems reasonable that the Hydroquinone could be replaced with Pyrocatechol (I would be inclined to try 8 or 9 grams instead of 11).

    Pyro could also replace the Hydroquinone (maybe Champlin's favorite 3.5 grams)?



    I quick look through my copy of Dignan's notes confirmed my recollection that both Champlin and Crawley used Glycin in several of their developers.

    Harry Champlin used Glycin in combination with pyro in several of his formulations. He frequently used 3.5 grams of Pyro to 11.5 grams Glycin per liter of working developer.

    I will delve further if any of this is helpful.

    Hopefully, Pat Gainer will join in with ascorbic suggestions.
    Tom Hoskinson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Gravel
    ...... After all the hoops I jumped through to get PMK even with drum development, I'd like a developer that is as good and inherently even.
    Is not Pyrocat-HD even enough? I have been using it in inversion tanks (120 size) at about half strength (1000+6+6) with very minimal agitation and there have been no signs of unevenness. This would be impossible with PMK. The economy is such that I would not be tempted to use rotary processing to minimise developer quantities. But I understand that you might want to use rotary processing for other reasons. Minimal agitation development gives good speed and an impression of sharpness that I like a lot.

    (As an aside, I use the metol version of Pyrocat-HD, not the standard phenidone. I doubt that it would make much difference, but it is more expensive.)

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    One additional observation. My tests show that Glycin is not soluble in ethyl, methyl or isopropyl alchohol. It is also not soluble in either ethylene or propylene glycol.
    Tom Hoskinson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hoskinson
    One additional observation. My tests show that Glycin is not soluble in ethyl, methyl or isopropyl alchohol. It is also not soluble in either ethylene or propylene glycol.
    However, I have determined that Glycin is soluble in Triethanolamine (TEA). I have prepared concentrated stock solutions of Ansco 130/TEA and will be testing it against the standard formulation over the next week.

    Ansco 130, Variant 1

    A Solution
    Triethanolamine 130 ml
    Metol 4.4 grams
    Hydroquinone 22 grams
    Glycin 22 grams
    Triethanolamine to make 200 ml

    B Solution
    Water 700 ml
    Sodium Sulfite 100 grams
    Sodium Carbonate 160 grams
    Potassium Bromide 11 grams
    Water to 1 liter
    Tom Hoskinson
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    Silverpixels5's Avatar
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    Tom:

    You may want to do side by side tests with the regular formula against the TEA one. The TEA may be good for a very extended shelf life, but I've found that my Ansco 130 solutions have kept for periods of 6 months even when dilutied 1:1...even longer for the stock solution. Its as if the glycin is more stable in the solution then it is as a powder on the self. I havn't noticed any difference in developer results after 6 months, but that could be purely subjective.
    RL Foley

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverpixels5
    Tom:

    You may want to do side by side tests with the regular formula against the TEA one. The TEA may be good for a very extended shelf life, but I've found that my Ansco 130 solutions have kept for periods of 6 months even when dilutied 1:1...even longer for the stock solution. Its as if the glycin is more stable in the solution then it is as a powder on the self. I havn't noticed any difference in developer results after 6 months, but that could be purely subjective.
    I agree "...I have prepared concentrated stock solutions of Ansco 130/TEA and will be testing it against the standard formulation over the next week."

    I have conventionally prepared Ansco 130 (on 6/8/04) and that is what I will use as my comparison.

    Today, I am mixing Ansel Adams version of Ansco 130 in TEA as a stock concentrate.

    Ansel Adams 130/TEA A Solution

    Chemical Amount Units
    Triethanolamine 150 ml
    Metol 2.2 g
    Glycin 11 g
    Triethanolamine to make 200 ml




    Ansel Adams 130/TEA B Solution

    Water 700 ml
    Sodium sulfite 35 g
    Sodium carbonate (mono)* 78 g
    Potassium bromide 5.5 g
    Water to make 1000 ml

    Working solution: 50 ml A + 250 ml B + 700 ml water

    My plan is to evaluate using these two developers in a Split Development scheme.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  10. #10
    juan's Avatar
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    Any thoughts on using Phenidone in place of metol in the various 130 recipes?
    juan

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