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  1. #1
    Rafal Lukawiecki's Avatar
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    Life of Concentrated Ansco 130 Stock

    I need to mix spare Ansco 130 into a liquid in order to avoid glycin going bad while it is still in its powder form. To save on storage space I am considering mixing not into the regular stock but by using only 50% of water. Does anyone know if it is a bad idea for any reason? Could the shelf-life of this more concentrated stock be shorter than that of the regular stock?

    Thanks for any advice.

    Rafal
    Rafal Lukawiecki
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  2. #2
    juan's Avatar
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    First, I've frozen glycin in my freezer in powder form and used it for about three years. I ran out before it stopped working.

    Second, I don't know if all the chemicals will dissolve into only half the water, but if the will, I see no problem with it.
    juan

  3. #3
    Rafal Lukawiecki's Avatar
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    Juan, thanks. They do dissolve in half the water as I've already tested that approach a while back. But at the time I did not keep the concentrate long enough to know if it would keep as well as the more dilute, normal stock solution.

    I'm curious if anyone ever kept a more concentrated 130 stock for a while.
    Rafal Lukawiecki
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  4. #4
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafal Lukawiecki View Post
    I'm curious if anyone ever kept a more concentrated 130 stock for a while.
    I have not tried that, nor do I know of anyone who has. However, my experience with long-term storage of the standard stock solution is covered in this post.

    And the point made by 'juan' is an especially good one. If the main issue is "to avoid glycin going bad while it is still in its powder form," then simply storing it frozen could solve that problem without the need to mix and store super-concentrates for long periods before use. This post contains a detailed description of my experience with frozen storage of glycin powder.

    The length of frozen storage by 'juan' appears to even exceed mine, and appears to show similar results.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  5. #5
    Rafal Lukawiecki's Avatar
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    Ken, thanks for your pointers about freezing glycin. I appreciate them very much.

    I am still interested in knowing if making a concentrated Ansco 130 stock solution would extend or shorten its lifetime or have any other impact. Are there any chemists around here who could venture a hypothesis? I would be grateful. For example, would the effectively much higher concentration of sulphite, and therefore diffent pH, impact on the other ingredients in the stock?

    Naively, I would assume that since there are a few syrupy stock developers it should be possible, but then again if this had always worked then why wouldn't almost all liquid developers come as syrups?

    Thanks everyone,
    Rafal.
    Rafal Lukawiecki
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafal Lukawiecki View Post
    Ken, thanks for your pointers about freezing glycin. I appreciate them very much.

    I am still interested in knowing if making a concentrated Ansco 130 stock solution would extend or shorten its lifetime or have any other impact. Are there any chemists around here who could venture a hypothesis? I would be grateful. For example, would the effectively much higher concentration of sulphite, and therefore diffent pH, impact on the other ingredients in the stock?

    Naively, I would assume that since there are a few syrupy stock developers it should be possible, but then again if this had always worked then why wouldn't almost all liquid developers come as syrups?

    Thanks everyone,
    Rafal.

    why don't you contact the photographer's formulary and ask them ?

    i have never added 1/2 the water, just the full amount to make the stock,
    and i have used some stock that is about a year and a half old with no problems
    ( i buy about 6 gallons at a time, mix it all at once and use it for film and paper ). how much longer than a year were you expecting to need it saved ?

  7. #7
    PhotoJim's Avatar
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    The standard stock solution definitely lasts over a year, and probably significantly longer; I can echo Ken's experiences. The only issue I have with long-term storage of Ansco 130 is if I store it in a bad jar that leaks air - the solution turns extremely dark brown (it's very obvious). It's nearly opaque in this case. Healthy 130 stock solution will often have a dark colour to it but it looks more like weakish tea than runny chocolate.
    Jim MacKenzie - Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

    A bunch of Nikons; Feds, Zorkis and a Kiev; Pentax 67-II (inherited from my deceased father-in-law); Bronica SQ-A; and a nice Shen Hao 4x5 field camera with 3 decent lenses that needs to be taken outside more. Oh, and as of mid-2012, one of those bodies we don't talk about here.

    Favourite film: do I need to pick only one?

  8. #8
    Rafal Lukawiecki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    why don't you contact the photographer's formulary and ask them ?
    I actually have contacted them before starting this thread. Sherry from PF told me that they have no data on the longevity of the more concentrated stock.

    I realise that the regular stock has excellent keeping qualities. Since I would like to save on storage space and volume, I am curious if the 50% stock would keep as well, better, or worse...
    Rafal Lukawiecki
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  9. #9
    PhotoJim's Avatar
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    I'm not sure anyone has tried it. You can lead the experiment, if you wish!
    Jim MacKenzie - Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

    A bunch of Nikons; Feds, Zorkis and a Kiev; Pentax 67-II (inherited from my deceased father-in-law); Bronica SQ-A; and a nice Shen Hao 4x5 field camera with 3 decent lenses that needs to be taken outside more. Oh, and as of mid-2012, one of those bodies we don't talk about here.

    Favourite film: do I need to pick only one?

  10. #10
    Rafal Lukawiecki's Avatar
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    I suppose I will experiment, starting this week, after reposting the question on LFPF... Only 3 x 4l PF130 to waste if worst happenned. I'll make it into 6l of more concentrated stock and will report here as time passes.
    Rafal Lukawiecki
    See rafal.net | Read rafal.net/articles

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