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  1. #11

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  2. #12
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewfrith
    Ole..what is your recipe for your TF4 replacement?

    thanks
    -andrew
    I've posted it here on APUG before, but I can't remember where. Since I've also posted more than 1100 other posts here, it's going to be difficult to find as well

    Also, I'm at work in the North Sea right now, and I don't have my darkroom notes with me

    No, it's not TF-3. It's a simple alkaline sodium thiosulfate formula, modified with a different alkali and addition of ammonium chloride, and a little bit of "tweaking" to keep the smell down...
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  3. #13
    juan's Avatar
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    Discussion on TF3/TF4 and the mystical OF-1 (Ole Fixer 1) is contained in this thread
    http://www.apug.org/forums/showthrea...highlight=OF-1

    I use TF-2 for negatives
    http://simmonsphotos.com/Formulas/TF-2.html

    an alkaline sodium thiosulfate fixer
    juan

  4. #14

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    This is the formula of Ole fixer I saved time ago:
    OF-1 (Ole's Fix numero uno)

    About 1½ cup sodium thiosulfate
    about two spoonfuls (heaped) of sodium sulfite
    a dollop of sodium bicarbonate
    three teaspoons ammonium chloride

    in one liter water - or two.

    Faster than TF-3, less smelly than TF-4, lots cheaper than both.

    Exact measurements still to be determined.

    Daniele

  5. #15
    Ole
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    Ehm - right.

    Translated to real measures, it's about

    200 g Sodium Thiosulfate pentahydrate
    40 g Sodium sulfite
    EITHER 15 ml 10% Sodium metabisulfite solution
    OR 15 g sodium bicarbonate

    Add 50 g Ammonium chloride last - even better if it's diluted in 100ml water first.

    Bicarbonate is more easily available, but should not be used if there is any possibility that the paper/film might be - or become - acidic. The metaborate version can be used with acid stop bath (citric acid), the bicarbonate not.

    Testing is still ongoing
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole
    The only drawback with alkaline fixer is that you shouldn't use an acid stop bath...
    I've been using Ilfostop Odorless Stop, which is Citric Acid based, followed by Ilford Hypam fixer, which is an alkaline (ammonium thiosulfate) fixer. I've been using this for my film. Is this a combo I should not be using? Should I stop using the stop?

  7. #17
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt miller
    Should I stop using the stop?
    Hypam is a well buffered neutral-ish fix, which can absorb quite a lot of acid before it "tips over".

    Acid stop bath was traditionally used for two reasons: To stop development, and to neutralize the alkali so it wouldn't contaminate the (acid) fixer. Getting too much developer in an acid fixer can have deletorious effects, depending on the composition.

    In general I find a significant loss of highlight detail with acidic rapid fixers, which is absent (or at least very much reduced) if the fixer is alkaline. I use this effect to brighten the highlights of alt. prints - a very dilute acid rapid fixer (1:10 from normal working strength) bleaches van Dykes, salt prints and POP in seconds. I don't want this to happen to negatives - or final prints.

    Getting acid into an alkaline fix is almost as bad - unless you know exactly how the fixer is made, the results are unpredictable. For that reason I have two versions of my recipe, with different ways of obtaining the same pH with a useful buffering effect.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  8. #18
    mobtown_4x5's Avatar
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    Here's a couple more random questions on this for my knowledgeable friends:

    1. Anybody know what fixer would be recomended for P Gainers Vit C developers? I would imagine they are fairly acidic, so would require an acid fix?

    2. I have switched to a water stop, and have been experimenting with letting the film just sit in the first tank/tray of water for a few minutes, to let the shadows continue a bit. Anyone else do this? Have you found it effective, do you reduce dev times to compensate, is there any downside to doing this?

    3. Did we ever get an answer on TF-4 and "Hypo-check"?

    THanks!

    Matt

  9. #19
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    2. Yes, this is water bath development. To maximize the effect, transfer the neg from developer to the water bath with minimal agitation, and the developer near the highlights will become exhausted while the developer continues to work near the shadow areas on the neg. The same principle is behind stand development.

    This also works with prints to improve highlight detail with a contrasty neg--a handy trick if you like graded paper and want something in between two grades.

  10. #20
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobtown_4x5
    1. Anybody know what fixer would be recomended for P Gainers Vit C developers? I would imagine they are fairly acidic, so would require an acid fix?
    Why? While vitamin C is Ascorbic acid, it is usually sodium ascorbate that's used. The developer is certainly alkaline, otherwise it wouldn't work at all!

    Use your favorite fix - unless you prefer an acid rapid fix; if you do I'll urge you to try an alkaline one.

    Quote Originally Posted by mobtown_4x5
    2. I have switched to a water stop, and have been experimenting with letting the film just sit in the first tank/tray of water for a few minutes, to let the shadows continue a bit. Anyone else do this? Have you found it effective, do you reduce dev times to compensate, is there any downside to doing this?
    I do it all the time, except when I just wash it quickly. The "important" thing is to get the developer off the surface of the film to minimise contamination of the fixer. I say minimise, not eliminate: You can't get rid of everything.

    I recon that development will continue for a few seconds in the fixer with the 5-second wash I use. Doesn't matter at all. The fixer will counteract the development and stop it very efficiently by removing all active silver halide.

    Quote Originally Posted by mobtown_4x5
    3. Did we ever get an answer on TF-4 and "Hypo-check"?
    No, we didn't. But there's no reason it shouldn't work. It even works with my "OF-1" which already contains halides, so it should work just fine with TF-4.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

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