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  1. #11

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    Jay, I plan to dissolve the Glycin in TEA first - if that works, I'll go on from there. By the way, Glycin/TEA should produce results comparable to Agfa 8 film developer. Agfa 8 gives results similar to Rodinal.

    Agfa 8
    Water (125 F or 52 C) - 50.0 ml
    Sodium Sulfite - 12.5 grams
    Glycin - 2.0 grams
    Potassium Carbonate - 25.0 grams
    Water to make - 1.0 liter

    I chose Ansco 130 as a starting point because it is one of my favorite print developers. I have a freshly mixed batch of standard Ansco 130 on hand to provide a direct comparison for the TEA version.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdef
    Far be it from me to question your methods, Tom. A two part, liquid version of Ansco 130 would be fantastic. I hope it works out for you.
    I mixed up a batch of 130/TEA last night. I dissolved the Glycin in TEA first - it went into solution between 250F and 260F. Then I added the Metol and Hydroquinone - both dissolved with no problems around 250F. I added the KBr last and had to stir for a long time at 260F in order to dissolve all of it. In the next batch, I'll add the KBr to the working developer as a percentage solution (which is what I normally do anyway).

    Now I need to test the stuff and see if it performs like the original Ansco 130 formula.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by juan
    Yes, Jay, very good job. With regards to Pyro/TEA developers, the Photographers Formulary product is named, by them, Pyrotriethanolamine. It would probably be best to discuss that developer by the entire name to distinguish it from Gainer's Pyro-TEA.
    juan
    Yes, the only thing wrong with Jay's list is that it does not cover the other 50-100 permutations of the Pees and Tees that are about to be reported. We have already seen Cat Pee Tea and Pee Pee Tea. What is next?

    The scenario reminds me a bit of a current computer commercial in which a woman interroagates the man and starts the questioning with, "Where were you next Thursday?"

    Pat, what have you unleashed on an unsuspecting world if not unmoderated chaos?

    Sandy

  4. #14
    gainer's Avatar
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    And to think, I was just trying to find a way to keep stock solutions a long time. WHAT HAVE I DONE?
    Gadget Gainer

  5. #15
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    Thank god I've stuck to X-tol (replenished its a few years old now) and my good old Ceylon or Assam tea as a processing aid.

    Pyrocat HD lurks in my darkroom and intial trials were interesting but I've lost the negs !!!!, but when the pressures on to get work out and on the wall for an exhibition experimenting and trialling a new developer goes out the window.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdef
    Ha! Yes, the possible permutations seem endless, which I find very exciting. Surely, a few top performers will eventually rise to the top of this ever growing list, in true Darwinian fashion. I'm enjoying seeing old, established formulae adapted (mutated) to this methodology, as in Tom's Amidol and Ansco 130 variations. It only looks like chaos if you're standing too close to it! This is evolution at work.
    Are we filling the gap of shutdown Kodak&Co analog laboratories? AFAIK science is about experimenting in a controlled methodical way, and publishing results so the whole scientific community can advance. I don't know about the controlled methodss. But all this communication looks a lot like scientific exchange of information

    Gilbert
    Wilbert
    http://www.photovergne.com
    Cours photo en Auvergne

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdef
    MMMMM- Glycin-TEA. Yummm! Is Glycin superadditive with phenidone? Will you try the same proportions of developing agent:TEA as these other formulae? What working characteristics would you expect from a glycin-TEA developer? I look forward to learning your findings.
    I would expect a Glycin/TEA combination to behave like Agfa 8 (formula posted earlier in this thread). In other words, I expect it to behave much like Rodinal.

    Crawley used the combination of Glycin, Hydroquinone and Phenidone in his FX-11 formulation and the combination does appear to be superadditive.

    I'll let you know what happens.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  8. #18
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    You would find that Pyrocat HD with enough sulfite would give no stain. Pyrogallol will also be stainless with enough sulfite. More and more sulfite is required as you go from one to another of those. The tanning action is more difficult to get rid of.

    Also, in each case you would find that the superadditivity between metol or phenidone and these agents will increase to a point as sulfite is added. When you want both stain and synergism, add as little sulfite as possible.
    Gadget Gainer

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdef
    Thanks Patrick. That's the point I'm trying to find (stain and synergism), and have with PCP-TEA, but haven't found with QP-TEA, even though I'm adding only about 1/16 teaspoon of sulfite to 500ml of developer. The thing is, I don't seem to get any stain, even without sulfite with QP-TEA.
    I am confused with all of the new names but assume that QP-TEA is hydroquinone + phenidone? If so I am fairly surprised that you are getting any significant developer activity at all with this combination. The threshold of development pH for hydroquinone is 10.0, and TEA gives a working pH of less than 9.5 in all of the formulas I have tried it in. Threshold of development is slightly lower (pH 9.5) with pyrocatechin, and much lower (pH 8.0) with pyrogallol. What I suspect may be happening is that the primary development activity is being carried out by phenidone and the hydroquinone is just barely entering into the mix. The could explain the lack of stain as phenidone does not stain.

    On two occasions I substituted hydroquinone for pyrocatechin in the Pyrocat-HD formula and got lots of stain, in fact much more than I wanted, and there appeared to be even more synergism between hydroquinone and phenidone than with pyrocatechin and phenidone. I was not satisfied with the experiments for various reasons and concluded there was little if anything to be gained by the substitution so abandoned the work.

    Sandy

  10. #20
    gainer's Avatar
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    If you have a neg you can sacrifice, bleach out the silver with Farmer's reducer and see if anything remains. The stain images of each, catechol, pyrogallol and hydroquinone are different colors.

    Another approach is to bleach a non-stained silver neg with rehalogenating bleach (same as would be used for sulfide sepia toning) and redevelop in a mixture of hydroquinone and carbonate solution. Proportions are not critical. This should tell you what color to look for. I have found it mkes a pretty good intensifier.
    Gadget Gainer

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