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  1. #11
    argentic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant
    but Bergger papers are Forte anyway.
    Bergger papers are made by Forte, but following the Bergger recipies. I like them both very much, but they are definately not the same papers.

    G.
    Wilbert
    http://www.photovergne.com
    Cours photo en Auvergne

  2. #12
    rogueish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by argentic
    So lets concentrate on the smaller, more client-oriented companies like FORTE, BERGGER, EFKE etc. They are more suitable to serve smaller customer-oriented market.
    G.
    Sounds good, but just try to find any of these up here in Canada. I've never heard of Efke or Bergger before hitting APUG. If Ilford sinks maybe the few stores I can find at all will start to carry these, but it looks more and more like digital is talking over. Some of the stores have moved to carrying film as the only non digital stock. The store I was fequenting added on a large addition. When it was finished, they filled it with more digital gadgets and lessened the "traditional" supplies floor area.
    Money talks and if something is taking up space and not "moving" it stops getting stocked.
    Can you say "beta video" and "music cassette"?

  3. #13

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    Having been to the Forte factory and watched the production I can tell you that Bergger paper and films are made on the same production line and cut off of the same master rolls as Forte and our Classic products. Any differences are due to different lot numbers and aging of the film and papers as they sit in the distribution chanel. There is no such thing as a Bergger receipe.

  4. #14
    Les McLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant
    Les

    Yes my radical idea is perhaps romantic and off the cuff but actually it's practical.

    Perhaps you are blinkered by your Ilford links, there's very few good darkroom suppliers now left in the UK.

    That's why I think we should buy into the former Eastern block manufacturers.
    Ian,

    I'm certainly not blinkered, just practical and prepared to face reality. Before I made my living in photography I was an accountant and worked for both large multi nationals and small family companies and if the company does not make a profit it cannot function. Traditional wet photography has been threatened for a few years now and it was inevetable that when sales dropped below a certain level companies involved were going to cut their losses and that's what has happened at Ilford. I'm as upset as everyone else and on two fronts, one because I happen to like and use most of their traditional products and two because they are a client and I'm likely to lose work.

    The idea that Forte are more interested in their clients than companies like Ilford is nonsense, Ilford care very much, from the top boss down to the ladies who packed the paper into the boxes in the darkroom and that's not idle chatter I've spent a lot of time with them all and I know it to be a fact.

    We will still find a supply of traditional materials but unless we are prepared to pay the premium prices that will be asked they too will go the way that Ilford seem to be going. As a matter of interest I intend to speak to the people in Ilford that I deal with about the situation and will post what information I can.
    "Digital circuits are made from analogue parts"
    Fourtune Cookie-Brooklyn May 2006

    Website: www.lesmcleanphotography.com

  5. #15
    BWGirl's Avatar
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    Les,

    Thanks (in advance) for talking to them. I think that if we just got some answers, it would be a start. You know... no one likes uncertainty, and this sort of thing makes even the most staid of us jittery as h#ll!

    I know how the economics of business works, but I think we look at Ilford as someone rather than something. We've been all but abandoned by "Ol' Yeller" and the others are almost microscopic. We've sort of been clinging to Ilford as our last, best hope & now, we feel a wee bit betrayed.

    I'll be looking forward to hearing what you find out! You should take copies of this & the other posts & show them what this group thinks & how this news is affecting us.

    TIA!
    Jeanette
    Jeanette
    .................................................. ................
    Isaiah 25:1

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggie
    Why not buy the Ilford equipment and ship it to Calgary?

    Colony? hah! I'm sure Aggie was merely stating/acknowledging that Calgary is the centre of the photography universe, and not just mixing up the UK Ian Grant and the Calgary Ian Greant.

  7. #17
    Aggie's Avatar
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    actually I did mix up the two of you. I never realized til your post that there were two with very similar names. Where did I put my glasses?

  8. #18
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Whoa, I'm wearing my glasses and I missed that too! Well, nice to meet you, Ian, whichever one of you I'd been confusing with the other!

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueish
    Sounds good, but just try to find any of these up here in Canada. I've never heard of Efke or Bergger before hitting APUG. If Ilford sinks maybe the few stores I can find at all will start to carry these, but it looks more and more like digital is talking over. Some of the stores have moved to carrying film as the only non digital stock. The store I was fequenting added on a large addition. When it was finished, they filled it with more digital gadgets and lessened the "traditional" supplies floor area.
    Money talks and if something is taking up space and not "moving" it stops getting stocked.
    Can you say "beta video" and "music cassette"?
    Try Eight Elm in Toronto (Elm St. at University Ave.) as they stock both Bergger and Forte films and paper.
    Brian McDowell

  10. #20

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    uhhhh!! Hate to point this out, but Ilford just like Agfa is not gone yet...let's not bury the patient before they are gone. I think that our supply world is going to get much smaller, but it is possible that neither company will go away. That said maybe one will become a film company, the other a paper company - the only thing we can know for certain is we can only guess at what will happen. Been thinking about a JandC film order, had not considered paper. Do know I have been waiting since June for an order of Seagull paper, keeps getting back ordered - which has left me wondering about them. This will be a rough ride, guess we better get ready to say good-bye to many old friends and hopefully Hello, to some new ones.
    Mike C

    Rambles

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