Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,905   Posts: 1,584,597   Online: 904
      
Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 345678910 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 92

Thread: The RC Myth.

  1. #81
    DKT
    DKT is offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    504
    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian
    i used to print a lot of work for publication ( pr headshots, newspaper stuff ) on rc, and i sell alot of prints for government ( and personal ) archives - not proofs work, but "final prints". people who want publicaiton prints don't need archival images, and by all accounts, rc-glossy prints reproduced better than everything else. on the other hand, the us government and state archives don't accept rc prints for their collections.
    not meaning to disagree John, I know you do HABS/HAER work--but in my experience that program is about the only one left still exclusively using fiber paper. I have talked with the head photographer of another Washington DC gov't based building survey ., and was surprised to learn that they used digital cameras now. Not even film anymore. On the state level--the survey programs are largely supported by Federal funding, and these often use small format roll film instead of sheet film, and alot of them use RC paper.

    I can also say, that the state archive in my system has largely used RC paper for the past decade at least--along with the 5-6 museums in the system. I can't even think of the last time I made a fiber print at work--although I can, we have a huge darkroom and a custom slot hood behind a big sink. We use this for sepia toning RC prints. Fact of the matter is--most museums and archives use RC papers and machine processors and have the ability to make the fiber if they really have to.

    It comes down to money in the end. You look at the the end use of the prints--and it's not a work of "art", but something that is used for accessing information. The longterm file is kept on film, tucked safely away. There can be multiple sets of files as well--with master files and user negs. If the print is a one-of-a-kind "artifact"--then it too, is tucked away and really not even used--ever. It sits in storage forever.

    If y'all don't believe me--check with your state archives. Most of them don't even have photo dept's. or photographers on staff. The Federal ones are using everything from Frontier prints to inkjets and dye subs now. Film--polyester based sheet and microfilm--is the standard. Not so much prints.

  2. #82
    DKT
    DKT is offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    504
    Quote Originally Posted by Andre R. de Avillez
    Ilford's PDF for Multigrade Portfolio makes no mention of polyester, only polyethylene (as all other RC papers).

    ah, well, wishful thinking! Wilhelm was the one who theorized that a rc paper made such as that would be very stable. Like I said, I have used very little of portfolio, simply because I don't tray process much anymore. It likes to jump the racks becuase of it's weight. I assumed, wrongly, that Ilford had coated it like cibachrome--since the base felt so similar. Plus they touted it at first, as having exceptional stability.

    The paper is still simply the emulsion coated onto a plastic base.

  3. #83
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas, USA
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    2,895
    Images
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by DKT
    FWIW--I'm not 100% positive, but the paper Ed mentions--MGIV Portfolio, I believe is somewhat different. It's more akin to a Cibachrome, in that it's coated on top of an opaque melinex base. meaning--whitened polyester. A very stable paper if it's toned. If it is made this way--and I don't use much of it because of it's weight--for some idiotic reason Ilford designed a paper that won't work in all of their processing machines. But if it is made this way--it is possible that it will be more stable than a fiber based print. Simply because of the base material. It doesn't get much better than polyester.....that's why the archives use polyester sheet films and microfilm.
    Portfolio is a lovely paper to work with. Before switching to fiber, I used to use it for my "fine" prints. Again, I found it to have exactly the same emulsion speed as MGIV. In other words, I could work up my test prints on MGIV then switch over to Portfolio without any changes under the enlarger, save a very small focus compensation for its heavier weight.
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
    My Photography Blog

  4. #84

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    16,887
    Quote Originally Posted by DKT
    not meaning to disagree John, I know you do HABS/HAER work--but in my experience that program is about the only one left still exclusively using fiber paper. I have talked with the head photographer of another Washington DC gov't based building survey ., and was surprised to learn that they used digital cameras now. Not even film anymore. On the state level--the survey programs are largely supported by Federal funding, and these often use small format roll film instead of sheet film, and alot of them use RC paper.

    I can also say, that the state archive in my system has largely used RC paper for the past decade at least--along with the 5-6 museums in the system. I can't even think of the last time I made a fiber print at work--although I can, we have a huge darkroom and a custom slot hood behind a big sink. We use this for sepia toning RC prints. Fact of the matter is--most museums and archives use RC papers and machine processors and have the ability to make the fiber if they really have to.

    It comes down to money in the end. You look at the the end use of the prints--and it's not a work of "art", but something that is used for accessing information. The longterm file is kept on film, tucked safely away. There can be multiple sets of files as well--with master files and user negs. If the print is a one-of-a-kind "artifact"--then it too, is tucked away and really not even used--ever. It sits in storage forever.

    If y'all don't believe me--check with your state archives. Most of them don't even have photo dept's. or photographers on staff. The Federal ones are using everything from Frontier prints to inkjets and dye subs now. Film--polyester based sheet and microfilm--is the standard. Not so much prints.
    i know what you mean - before the end of the decade i am sure the habs program will all be done on digital too. i know a lot of the states have down-sized from 4x5 - 8x10 to 35mm. the states say that they have no place to store all the negatives and prints. i guess i am just lucky the habs guys still like / need fiber ... but i am sure once jack boucher and jet lowe are gone, everything will be submitted on CD ... and since they ( jack et al. ) print everything on azo, and will be no longer --- kodak won't have one less reason to keep making it ... and THAT will be a sad day.

    it wasn't too long ago that all national register nomination forms & inventory forms required fiber prints, and they switched to rc because there are so few people that print on fiber (commercial labs that is ) and if they happen to find a fiber printer, they charge anywhere from 20-50$ a print, depending on who you go to --- and if you are surveying a 50-100 house neighborhood or doing a nr nomination that has more than 1 photo, you are not even going to make 50¢ / hour by the end of it all ...

    i know here in rhode island there are no labs that print on fb ( all lightjet ), and it is only through word of mouth you will find anyone who does fb on the side for $$. in boston, on the other hand there are a few people left, but, all but one that *i* know of, insist on putting hardener in their fixer, so if you need something processed or printed for habs program you are outta-luck.

    i am sure that in a short time the survey and nr nominations will be done in digital too, considering they pay so little to have anyone do the work ... i always get sent proposals to photograph a 150-300 house neighborhood and they pay peanuts, which is probably the reason why schools with preservatin studies graduate programs tend to get the contracts, so their students will basically do it for free ( read: classwork/experience) and it helps pay the teacher's stipend. otherwise by the time you are done shooting and taking the film to a lab, you basically spent the total amount they offered to pay you AND the forms aren't even filled out with all the info they need for the submission ... THAT is another couple of long days depending on how many you have to deal with...
    Last edited by jnanian; 09-01-2004 at 08:46 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: forgot to add a sad face :(

  5. #85
    BWGirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,050
    Images
    18
    Well, I just finished printing my partner's negative for the negative exchange. Doing this answered a lot of questions for me...like the "why fiber?" question.

    It's really hard to understand what the big hoopla is all about until you can hold two prints in your hands...one fiber and one RC. There seems to be a tonal richness to the fiber print. Both are exposed fairly well but that fiber print looks different. I can't really explain it.

    Up to now, I've been an RC kinds gal...but guess what I'm getting for my anniversary tomorrow!!! hahaha FIBER paper! LOL
    Jeanette
    Jeanette
    .................................................. ................
    Isaiah 25:1

  6. #86

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,042
    Jeanette,

    I've found the same and have you noticed how nice the FB feels when it's in the chemicals unlike RC which feels kind of slimy in comparison. Looking at an RC and FB print together the tonal range is much better to my eye.

    "...but guess what I'm getting for my anniversary tomorrow!!!" mmmm and which anniversary is that?

    Tony

  7. #87
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas, USA
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    2,895
    Images
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by BWGirl
    Up to now, I've been an RC kinds gal...but guess what I'm getting for my anniversary tomorrow!!! hahaha FIBER paper! LOL
    Jeanette
    I call that a heck of a wonderful anniversary present.

    Now, if I could just get my wife interested - :o
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
    My Photography Blog

  8. #88
    BWGirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,050
    Images
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by TPPhotog
    Jeanette,

    I've found the same and have you noticed how nice the FB feels when it's in the chemicals unlike RC which feels kind of slimy in comparison. Looking at an RC and FB print together the tonal range is much better to my eye.

    "...but guess what I'm getting for my anniversary tomorrow!!!" mmmm and which anniversary is that?

    Tony
    Hey Tony!!

    It's my & the hubby's 19 anniversary! I keep telling him this is the longest this ADD chick has ever stuck with anything!

    Tony....stop putting your hands in the chemicals! hahaha
    Jeanette
    Jeanette
    .................................................. ................
    Isaiah 25:1

  9. #89

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,042
    Quote Originally Posted by BWGirl
    Hey Tony!!

    It's my & the hubby's 19 anniversary! I keep telling him this is the longest this ADD chick has ever stuck with anything!

    Tony....stop putting your hands in the chemicals! hahaha
    Jeanette
    Jeanette, 19 years? WOW I think the only thing I've ever stuck with for that long is life ppp[s and photography LOL - Congratulations!!

    Gloves mmm I put up with doing the Michael Jackson impersonation with the white cotton gloves for negs, but rubber gloves just ain't one of my fetishes (well not one I'm admitting to )

    Tony

  10. #90

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    965
    Images
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by TPPhotog
    Gloves mmm I put up with doing the Michael Jackson impersonation with the white cotton gloves for negs, but rubber gloves just ain't one of my fetishes (well not one I'm admitting to )
    I got to tell you, though, that wearing latex gloves used to be a big deal for me until I found some that actually fit right... In the end, it just keeps my hands (which are ALWAYS cut up somehow) dry and safe.

    Funny, I'm the opposite from you, I don't wear cotton gloves for handling negs (though I probably should), but DO wear latex in the developing part. To each his own, I guess.

    take care,

    André

Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 345678910 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin