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  1. #31
    djklmnop's Avatar
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    DrPhil. My apologies, I should've read the post all the way through. I hope I didn't instill any hostility.

  2. #32

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    Thank you everyone for your kind suggestions; links and also PM's. Sorry I haven't been back earlier but I spent from 8pm last night until 6am this morning burried in the Darkroom and only crawled out of my pit (bed) an hour ago

    I think the old saying that once you know the rules you can bend / break them is very apt in my life. Once I can understand the Zone System and variations of it, I will be able to pinch the parts I find most useful and modify / simplify where I need. Looks like I'll have some interesting reading for those days when the weather isn't at its best for getting those pictures.

    Once again thank you all for your kindness Tony

  3. #33

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    I see you're in Devon,and I get down there now and again. (In fact, I'm going there this evening) If you ever fancy meeting up when I'm there, or if you're ever in Buckinghamshire, I'm more than happy to spend time with you.....
    Peter.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by djklmnop
    DrPhil. My apologies, I should've read the post all the way through. I hope I didn't instill any hostility.
    None taken.
    Facts are facts; however, perception is reality.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Hogan
    I see you're in Devon,and I get down there now and again. (In fact, I'm going there this evening) If you ever fancy meeting up when I'm there, or if you're ever in Buckinghamshire, I'm more than happy to spend time with you.....
    Peter.
    Peter meeting up for a drink or two and a chat would be a pleasure Thank you for the kind offer Tony

  6. #36

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    Thanks to all for the help here and the links sent to me. I feel I now have a basic grasp of the metering side and I already guesstimate push/pulling of developing times based on what I see at the shoot. So this will give me a good basis for reading of the more detailed books recommended

    The part I couldn't understand looking back is that we have recommended development times which are provided by suppliers and most of us move that time slightly based on our own experiences. But hadn't taken in / remembered a table of standard times or percentages for processing each type of film for n+1 or n-1.

    Now on a link I was sent I've found:
    N-1 = 25% decrease in development time
    N-2 = 50% decrease in development time
    N+1 = 25% increase in development time
    N+2 = 50 % increase in development time
    After scribbling on lots of paper and constantly resharpening a pencil I think it makes a lot more sense now

    Could be ditching the F100 and getting either a more conveniently manual one or a MF in the near future LOL

    Kind regards Tony

  7. #37
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    Tony,

    If you are wanting to stick with roll film and practice the zone system a bit further, you might try a MF camera with removeable backs. I've seen some guys that use 1 camera and 3 backs. One back is for N-1, another for N, and a third for N+1. I would suggest testing for your actual developing times. My N+1, N+2, N-1, and N-2 times don't agree with your above scheme. Several of the suggested books cover how to test your film. Les McLean's method is simple; however, there are those that prefer a more refined sensitometric approach which is covered best in Davis' BTZS book. Les McLean's book is where I would suggest that you start.

    Phil
    Facts are facts; however, perception is reality.

  8. #38
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    Of course, you could just step right up to LF. However, it's a lot different from your F100.
    Facts are facts; however, perception is reality.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPhil
    Of course, you could just step right up to LF. However, it's a lot different from your F100.
    Very true I think that's why I'm thinking about a MF first as although still very different it's not quite so much of a jump. But I could be wrong.

  10. #40
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    With roll film, I reserve my application of the Zone system of perception mostly to the printing stage. At the exposure stage, I am interested in preserving the shadows. Come to think of it, what else can you do at that stage? You can certainly look at a scene an know that it will be either easy or hard to print. Now, if you are using sheet film, you may certainly mark the film holder with the SBR or some other code to tell you how to modify development.

    The problem is that even with sheet film, if you try to develop a very wide range scene scene to fit on normal paper, you will get to a point where you must still dodge the highs in order to keep the whole picture from looking drab. Painters do this, of course. So what do you lose by developing all negatives so that anything in perceived zones from 2 0r 3 tp 8 will print without effort? Then if some highlight is too high, you burn it in. If it's a narrow range scene, you can use a higher grade of paper.

    If you think I'm crazy, go ahead and say so. In any case, the final application of the Zone system comes in making the print have the Zones you saw in the original, no matter what "zones" you measure in the negative.
    Gadget Gainer

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