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  1. #1

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    Delta 3200 in Pyrocat

    I seem to have awakened some evil spirits when i decided to use this film. I have shot/ruined 3 rolls, two 35mm and 1 120 so far and thought a post was in order.
    I use pyrocat hd 1:100 for all my films, pre soak, then develop- typically 11 min with agitation every 2 minutes. This worked nicely for Delta 400 and 100, but holy moley, not 3200.

    I shot the last bit of 35mm at 1600 speed, developed for 16 minutes with presoak, agitation for 30 sec initially and then 15 sec of agitation every two minutes, and got VERY thin negatives.

    Something in the film that does not like pcat?? My chemistry is not very old, mixed it a month or so ago, and am using it without problems on the other two films.

  2. #2
    Rick A's Avatar
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    I dont understand when you say (1+100) as the normal mix is (1+1+100) and further on you state the chems were mixed only a month ago. Are you refering to mixing the raw chems to make the two solutions or did you mix both solutions together already, when they should only be mixed just prior to use.
    Rick A
    Argentum aevum

  3. #3

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    Pyrocat in my experience is a lovely developer (my favorite) but it needs generous exposure. Since the whole point of these "3200" films is underexposure and salvaging with overdevelopment, I think a speed enhancing developer would be much better.

  4. #4

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    I exposed a few rolls of Delta 3200 120 last summer, carefully metering with an incident meter, film speed set to 1000. I developed it in divided Pyrocat-HD, and the resulting images were pretty darned good. I probably would rate it at 800 next time. It needed a touch more contrast and a touch more exposure. I'd probably use Pyrocat-HD in the 1:1:100 dilution next time unless the scene is very contrasty. This film has a loooong, flat tonal scale, but it's lovely stuff.

    Peter Gomena

  5. #5
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    For Delta 3200 you must consider it a push over 1000 ISO. So 1600 EI is 1 stop push, 3200 is 2 stop push really. Thus a developer good for pushing is recommended. Microphen stock, HC 1+15 both work very well but I find I usually develop for 1 stop further so if I shoot at 3200 I develop using the time for 6400. DD-X 1+4 I find needs even more extra time, shoot at 3200 develop for 12800. Delta 3200 really needs a lot of time in the tank to yield good density.
    Harry Pulley - Visit the BLIND PRINT EXCHANGE FORUM

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  6. #6

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    Delta 3200 in Pyrocat

    Quote Originally Posted by pgomena View Post
    I exposed a few rolls of Delta 3200 120 last summer, carefully metering with an incident meter, film speed set to 1000. I developed it in divided Pyrocat-HD, and the resulting images were pretty darned good. I probably would rate it at 800 next time. It needed a touch more contrast and a touch more exposure. I'd probably use Pyrocat-HD in the 1:1:100 dilution next time unless the scene is very contrasty. This film has a loooong, flat tonal scale, but it's lovely stuff.

    Peter Gomena
    Thanks, my earlier post should have said I dissolved the raw chemicals into A and B each a month or so ago, and I did use the 1:1:100 dilution in the original post.

    Peter, you did not state your times or agitation. I have not tried the divided regimen of pcat development, although I did print out Sandy's posts and others about it. would you mind giving a bit more detail?

    Thanks to all who replied.

  7. #7
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    I would recommend doing a test, if you can verify that your pyrocat is still good by successfully developing a roll of your usual Delta 400/100.

    Expose a roll where you bracket your exposures. 400, 800, 1600. Develop for the 16 minutes you used before, agitating for 10s every minute.
    Examine the roll and pick the exposure index that gives you enough shadow detail.
    Now shoot a whole roll at that exposure index, let's say it was 800.
    Cut the roll in thirds and develop one piece at a time. If 16 minutes makes the negative highlights look too thin, you need to increase development when developing the second piece of film. Judge from there and see if you can get perfect negs with the third piece.
    Important: Judge the negatives by printing them.

    This is something you should do any time you use a new film and developer combination.

    Then, on top of this, if you feel a need to shoot a roll at EI 1600, you obviously have to compensate for the underexposure by developing longer, and a new test will be in order.

    Good luck,

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I would recommend doing a test, if you can verify that your pyrocat is still good by successfully developing a roll of your usual Delta 400/100.

    Expose a roll where you bracket your exposures. 400, 800, 1600. Develop for the 16 minutes you used before, agitating for 10s every minute.
    Examine the roll and pick the exposure index that gives you enough shadow detail.
    Now shoot a whole roll at that exposure index, let's say it was 800.
    Cut the roll in thirds and develop one piece at a time. If 16 minutes makes the negative highlights look too thin, you need to increase development when developing the second piece of film. Judge from there and see if you can get perfect negs with the third piece.
    Important: Judge the negatives by printing them.

    This is something you should do any time you use a new film and developer combination.

    Then, on top of this, if you feel a need to shoot a roll at EI 1600, you obviously have to compensate for the underexposure by developing longer, and a new test will be in order.

    Good luck,

    - Thomas
    Thanks Thomas, I usually don't have problems with film/developer, but this was quite unusual

  9. #9
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Delta 3200 often needs to be developed quite a bit longer than other films to get the contrast you need for good prints. Especially if you expose it at 1600, which technically is a push.
    Two developers that I have found work really well are Ilford Ilfotec DD-X or Kodak HC-110. DD-X for shadow detail and HC-110 for contrast. A good starting point is Ilford's time given for one stop more underexposure than you gave, so if you shot it at 1,600, develop it at the time Ilford says for 3,200 and so on. It has yielded me some fabulous negatives in the past.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #10
    Rick A's Avatar
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    Ethol UFG(ultra fine grain) has times for T-max up to 6400(3200+1stop push), just might do the trick for you. The other thing I can think of for using pyro, increase temp to keep your time down, and still increase density and contrast in the negs.
    Rick A
    Argentum aevum

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