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  1. #11
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdef
    Thanks for that explanation, Sandy. So, if my stained negatives print well on grade 2 VC paper, there's a good chance they'll print equally well on grade two Azo? If that's the case, I have many more negatives that will print on Azo than I thought, and many that will just be way too contrasty. Probably only albumen can save those?
    Jay, remember, Azo has a broader range than most enlarging papers so it can handle a wider range of contrast. Sandy knows all the numbers, so I'll leave the quantitative explanation to him. Also, don't forget about using a water bath to reduce print contrast on Azo. It works very well using amidol; works good enough to a lesser degree with neutol. Any of the other developers I've tried tend to mottle in the water bath. Must be something to do with viscosity and solubility coefficients, but I'm sure not gonna try to prove that!
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
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  2. #12
    mobtown_4x5's Avatar
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    I examined both prints and found the differences to be vey subtle. However, that said, there is no doubt that the scale of the Azo is a little longer, allowing the blacks to go a little deeper while retaining the same hightlight pop and separation. Again, pretty subtle though.
    I hope others (who participated) will be recording thier impressions.

    Matt

  3. #13

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    An interesting thread. I think that the only way that this comparison would be valid is to subject both papers to testing to determine the exposure scale of each paper. From that exposure scale testing, two identically exposed negatives would need to be developed to the optimum density range to match the respective papers. From this matched combination one could then print the negatives so that the print d min reflection density matched and then finally the prints could be judged in a heads up comparison.

    Done in the way, that I described, it would be an "apples to apples" comparison. I would say that the comparison addressed here was "apples to oranges". Just my two cents worth. I print on Azo by the way.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Miller
    An interesting thread. I think that the only way that this comparison would be valid is to subject both papers to testing to determine the exposure scale of each paper. From that exposure scale testing, two identically exposed negatives would need to be developed to the optimum density range to match the respective papers. From this matched combination one could then print the negatives so that the print d min reflection density matched and then finally the prints could be judged in a heads up comparison.

    Done in the way, that I described, it would be an "apples to apples" comparison. I would say that the comparison addressed here was "apples to oranges". Just my two cents worth. I print on Azo by the way.
    I agree.
    hi!

  5. #15
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    Everyone seems to thinking we were doing a "test" to determine the "best", so maybe I should explain the purpose better. Several guys were wondering if there was big difference between an Azo print and one made on good MG paper, such as Ilford MG IV. The persons asking the question had not seen an Azo print before. I volunteered to make the prints for comparison. Since the one I chose to print was one that I had already printed on Azo, I tried to mak the Ilford print as good as I could and as close to the Azo print as I could.

    There was no more objective to this than what I said above. The primary purpose was to let some guys see an Azo print side-by-side to a VC print. I tried to keep everything as objective as I could and allow the participants to form their own opinions.

    There just ain't no "best of the best" in photography.
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  6. #16
    mobtown_4x5's Avatar
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    Sorry Alex, you were right. PM's would have been best for this.

  7. #17
    L Gebhardt's Avatar
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    My purpose for requesting the chance to see an Azo print was simply that I had not at that time seen one. It was very informative to also see a regular print from the same negative as well. Since the prints went out I have also received two Azo prints from another member. All three have shown Azo to be a very atractive material, enough so that I will try some soon.

    As far as which is best, well in the case of Alex's two images I feel the Azo print was better. Other negatives could be better on the Ilford paper. It was informative enough to me that I now want to do my own tests. Thanks again Alex.

    Larry

  8. #18
    Aggie's Avatar
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    the misinterpretation may be in the titling of the thread. When it is labled a contest, you assume one verses the other.
    Non Digital Diva

  9. #19
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggie
    the misinterpretation may be in the titling of the thread. When it is labled a contest, you assume one verses the other.
    Sorry Aggie. I'll take the hit. My bad.
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
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  10. #20
    VoidoidRamone's Avatar
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    Okay... this is a little off the subject of this post, but I thought it loosely fit. Correct me if I'm wrong, this is a "test" (or whatever it's called) on whether there is a difference between contact printing on AZO (contact paper) or MGIV (enlarging paper). My question is, can one print quality enlargements on AZO? What will they look like? Why couldn't one? etc.. Basically what separates a contact printing paper from an enlarging paper? Thanks for the help, as I am somehwhat new to this. -Grant

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