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  1. #1

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    Paterson System 4, 2-reel to 5-reel timing

    Just a simple topic. Any differences in development timings?

  2. #2
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    In general no the number of films makes no difference at all.

    The exception is if using highly dilute developers ID-011/D76/Xtol etc at 1+3, Rodinal at 1+100 maintaining sufficient developing agents. There should be 100ml of D76 stock per film so a minimum of 400ml per film, not an issue with 120 films but a potential issue with a tank full of 35mm reels.

    Ian

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    Rick A's Avatar
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    Filling and emptying the tank and getting even development with all reels. Its best to have the developer in the tank, then submerge all the reels in one shot.
    Last edited by Rick A; 02-16-2011 at 07:38 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: rrmember to smell check frist
    Rick A
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  4. #4
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralnphot View Post
    Filling and emptying the tank and getting even development with all reels. Its best to have the developer in the tank, then submerge all the reels in one shot.
    Rick, I've been using those tanks for over 40 years and filling the 5 reel tanks is not an issue at all except perhaps for C41 colour, I use similar sized Jobo tanks for 5x4.

    Ian

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    In general no the number of films makes no difference at all.

    The exception is if using highly dilute developers ID-011/D76/Xtol etc at 1+3, Rodinal at 1+100 maintaining sufficient developing agents. There should be 100ml of D76 stock per film so a minimum of 400ml per film, not an issue with 120 films but a potential issue with a tank full of 35mm reels.

    Ian
    Thanks for the helpful reply.

    Does HC-110 (Dil. H / 1:63) apply to that list of exceptions? Seems pretty dilute to me, hahaha.

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    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoricko View Post
    Thanks for the helpful reply.

    Does HC-110 (Dil. H / 1:63) apply to that list of exceptions? Seems pretty dilute to me, hahaha.
    HC-110 at Dil H should be OK, the HC stands for High Concentration.

    Be aware that the US and European versions of HC-110 aren't (or weren't) the same concentration so need different dilution. Sounds confusing but Ilford sell their equivalents as Ilfotec HC and LC (Low Concentration) which avoids the confusion

    US version Dil H is 1:63
    European version Dil H is 1:19

    Ian

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralnphot View Post
    Filling and emptying the tank and getting even development with all reels. Its best to have the developer in the tank, then submerge all the reels in one shot.
    A problem with stainless tanks for sure, but not the paterson tanks

    The system 4 tanks fill and emtpy very, very fast. Almost as if no lid was in place in fact. Steve Achell likes them for that reason, as do I.

  8. #8
    MattKing's Avatar
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    If you are using HC-110 dilution H, you need approximately 380ml of working solution for each roll, in order to have 6 ml of concentrate in there for each roll.

    So the dilution issue can arise with 35mm film.

    I use the word "approximately" because the 6 ml requirement is Kodak's recommendation, which clearly includes some safety room.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  9. #9
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    If you are using HC-110 dilution H, you need approximately 380ml of working solution for each roll, in order to have 6 ml of concentrate in there for each roll.

    So the dilution issue can arise with 35mm film.

    I use the word "approximately" because the 6 ml requirement is Kodak's recommendation, which clearly includes some safety room.

    While Paterson state 275ml per 35mm spiral (reel) most people use 300ml as the maths is easier. That works out at 4.75ml of US concentrate for Dilution H and that's a reasonable amount - may be wrong thats from memory.

    I have the figures for developer exhaustion, how much Dev agents get used up to process a film, Ilford published a very interesting set of papers when they were formulating Autophen a PQ version of ID-11/D76 during the 1950's.

    That data is transferable to other developer formulae although modern films contain less silver and aren't processed to as high a Gamma (contrast) now compared to the 1950's. That gives a larger safety factor.

    Ian

  10. #10

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    Thanks for the help guys. Gonna get my backlogged rolls developed soon.

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