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  1. #81
    brian steinberger's Avatar
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    Cooling MGWT, a test

    Well I told you I'd get to testing and I did. Today I got some Clayton's Ultra Cold developer and also again used some Moersch SE6 Blue that I had in stock. I was printing step wedges.

    To be honest I was extremely disappointed in the Clayton Ultra-Cold. It produced a rather unpleasant greenish tone, not far from what most other developers would produce. I added 10ml/L of 1% benzotrazole solution to it.. Nothing. I added another 10ml/L of 1% benzotriazole, and again, Nothing. I'm not giving up on it yet, I'm going to selenium tone some of the wedges and also split sepia-selenium some as well to see how it tones.

    On to the Moersch SE6 Blue... WOW!!! As soon as I turned the lights on I knew that was the developer for neutralizing MGWT. A wonderful neutral bluish color. Very cold, similar to a mild gold toning of MGWT. Some of the color is lost through washing, though not much. I also got around to selenium toning one of my wedges of MGWT in Blue. I was amazed. I toned for 6 minutes in Kodak Selenium at the 1:19 dilution. The paper acted much like MGIV, not turning a brownish-purple in the shadows, but rather simply cooling off even more and losing the slight tinge of green from it's blue. The blacks stayed cold! I was very impressed! Next I'm going to try the 1:9 dilution and see if it cools off even more, or gives a cold purple to the shadows. Overall I would have to say that Moersch Blue is the cold-tone developer that will cool off MGWT.

    I have attached scans of MGWT in Blue un-toned, as well as MGWT in Blue & selenium toned. I have also included a scan of a wedge of MGWT in PF130 1:1 for comparison in tone.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails MGWT wedges.jpg  
    Last edited by brian steinberger; 03-04-2011 at 06:11 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #82
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Great results, Brian. I also have some of that MT6 blue toner too.
    Have you any idea of how archival it is? I'm a bit worried about that, to be honest, as I think it's dye based.

    Also, for cold tone developer - have you tried Edwal Ultra Black? I used that for a while, and it gives amazing blacks and cold tones.

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  3. #83
    brian steinberger's Avatar
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    I'm sorry Thomas, I should have specified. The paper developer I used is also known as Moersch SE6 Blue. It is not a toner. I know the toner you're speaking of, and I wouldn't imagine it being archival. No blue toners are. I also have a PF blue toning kit. I bought it a few months ago planning on trying it eventually, but the research I've done and the bad results I've heard from Bob Carnie along with the fact that it is not archival has led to me to not try it yet.

    No I haven't tried Edwal Ultra Black. I was on my short list though. I don't think B&H will ship that, that's why I haven't tried it yet. I may order some from Freestyle though, as that's where I get the Moersch Blue as well.

  4. #84
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    You may wish to tap Suzanne Revy's shoulder about the Edwal Ultra Black. I think she used to use it with MGWT, but I'm not sure.

    I see about the developer... I'll have to look into that... Sorry for the mix-up.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  5. #85
    brian steinberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I see about the developer... I'll have to look into that... Sorry for the mix-up.
    Thomas, if you're interested in seeing how cool MGWT can go, definitely do.

  6. #86
    Steve Sherman's Avatar
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    This has been a wonderful thread to follow and have found it quite interesting.

    For me, when I break down what has been shared by what appears to be knowledgeable printers there are several layers to this discussion.

    It's obvious to me there are different factors dictating ones first choice of enlarging paper.

    In no order of preference, COST, COLOR, MICOR CONTRAST, SPEED and AVAILABILITY, there maybe other concerns but these are the ones which come to mind.

    I am not familiar with how to structure this as a "poll" but I would be most interested in those responding in this thread as to what is their number ONE preference. No explanation just a one word answer from those capitalized above.

    Cheers!
    Real Photographs are Born Wet !
    http://www.steve-sherman.com

  7. #87
    brian steinberger's Avatar
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    Steve, that's funny cause I was actually thinking of making this a poll thread when I started it, but decided not to, rather chose to gather information from those instead of them just selecting one paper or another from a poll. I'm not sure if I can add a poll to this thread now. Maybe a moderator can step in and help. I would be interested as well.

    I've enjoyed this thread too and I hope it continues to grow. From what I have gathered so far it seems that most are in favor MGWT as a preference. I honestly don't think I could choose. I enjoy having the choice of each paper for different printing situations. If I HAD to choose I guess I would probably go with MGWT.

    Your determining factors of choosing a paper are correct, though I would add Dmax in there as well.

  8. #88
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sherman View Post

    In no order of preference, COST, COLOR, MICOR CONTRAST, SPEED and AVAILABILITY, there maybe other concerns but these are the ones which come to mind.
    While you have image colour there's also two other missing factors - base colour and also emulsion surface.

    These other two factors played an important part when I switched to Forte Poltwarmtone a few years ago when Agfa ceased production.

    At that point Ilford MG Warmtone was on a sickly creamy base which some of us didn't like, the base has since been discontinued and now it's on a nice white base. My other option was the Kentmeere WT paper but I didn't like the surface.

    Another issue is the subtle way some papers handle shadows or highlights often being better at one than the other. Talking nuances here but Ilford Galerie is superb for stretching out highlight details, but it's not warm toned. MCC was/is superb for rich shadow details, Polywarmtone seemed to have the best overall balance, I think this is what you're referring to as micro contrasts.

    An ideal warm tone paper has great flexibility, can be bent tonally & in image colour through development controls.

    Ian

  9. #89
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Brian
    I have decided to abandon the blue chemically , in my toner sequence.
    This is my crazy solution*****FOR SENSITIVE READERS DO NOT FOLLOW THIS POST AS IT MAY CONTAIN DIGITAL DIALOQUE WHICH COULD HARM YOU****

    Once I have selected an image from my series that I really believe is worthy of printing and selling. I will high resolution scan the entire image,.
    Then I will make my enlarged solarization prints with all steps that I have been working on for the last few years minus the blue toner. (I will include the black rebate for measurment sakes.)
    I will then mount the print to aluminum and measure the print .
    Then I will in PS separate out the shadows and make a shadow only negative with anything above 1/4 tone blocked out black on the negative and only the shadows showing through.{ the negative will be sized to the print) right now I am planning on 18x28 inch prints , once I get the larger film I will make them to any mural size.
    Final steps will be to coat the paper with some sizing to accept a hit of Carbon, or Gum that has been made with blue pigment.
    This layer will create the elusive blue shadows I have been pinning for the last 6 years.

    Crazy yes, Only in Canada you say?



    Quote Originally Posted by brian steinberger View Post
    I'm sorry Thomas, I should have specified. The paper developer I used is also known as Moersch SE6 Blue. It is not a toner. I know the toner you're speaking of, and I wouldn't imagine it being archival. No blue toners are. I also have a PF blue toning kit. I bought it a few months ago planning on trying it eventually, but the research I've done and the bad results I've heard from Bob Carnie along with the fact that it is not archival has led to me to not try it yet.

    No I haven't tried Edwal Ultra Black. I was on my short list though. I don't think B&H will ship that, that's why I haven't tried it yet. I may order some from Freestyle though, as that's where I get the Moersch Blue as well.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails stilllifeNo Blue.jpg   stilllifeBlue added.jpg  

  10. #90
    SuzanneR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    You may wish to tap Suzanne Revy's shoulder about the Edwal Ultra Black. I think she used to use it with MGWT, but I'm not sure.

    I see about the developer... I'll have to look into that... Sorry for the mix-up.
    I've used Edwal Platinum II developer with this paper, and loved the results, but it's a warm tone I'm after, not a cool tone. I'd use it more, but it's a little hard to get it shipped, though I think Freestyle will ship it. I've been using Ilford WT developer lately, and the results are quite similar.



 

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