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  1. #11

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    How about dissolving the phenidone in alcohol with salicylic acid, as Ryuji recommends? Anyone tried that?

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by psvensson
    How about dissolving the phenidone in alcohol with salicylic acid, as Ryuji recommends? Anyone tried that?
    That Suzuki recommendation was in the context of mixing stable ascorbic acid/phenidone developers.

    I have looked through his postings and could not find any references to mixing phenidone/salicylic acid stock solutions.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  3. #13

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    Here are 2 formulations, based on Suzuki developers, that I modified to produce concentrated TEA stock solutions.

    I have not yet tested these developers!

    DS–14 Modified, (Neutral Black Tone Paper Developer)

    Triethanolamine---------------------------350 ml
    Ascorbic Acid------------------------------68 grams
    Phenidone ---------------------------------2.3 grams
    Triethanolamine to make-----------------500 ml

    To make 1 liter of working developer, take 50 ml of DS-14A, add 850ml water, 12 grams sulfite and 30 grams carbonate and mix. Then add water to make 1 liter.

    Add 0.2% Benzotriazole as needed to achieve desired tone
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------


    DS–15 Modified, (Warm Tone Soft Working Paper Developer)

    Triethanolamine--------------------------350 ml
    Ascorbic Acid------------------------------47 grams
    Metol---------------------------------------5.8 grams
    Triethanolamine to make----------------500 ml

    To make 1 liter of working developer, take 50 ml DS–15A, add 850ml water, 5 grams sulfite, 8 grams carbonate and mix. Then add water to make 1 liter.

    Add 2% solution of KBr as needed to achieve desired tone
    Tom Hoskinson
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  4. #14

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    Tom, on this page, Suzuki says:

    Phenidone may be substituted for Dimezone S, but the solution should be used soon after mixing. Phenidone B or Dimezone may also be substituted for Dimezone S with no loss of stability, but it is best to dissolve it in alcohol first together with salicylic acid.

    So he's talking about Phenidone B or Dimezone, not Phenidone A, but it implies that the salicylic acid is good for more than preserving ascorbate.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by psvensson
    Tom, on this page, Suzuki says:

    Phenidone may be substituted for Dimezone S, but the solution should be used soon after mixing. Phenidone B or Dimezone may also be substituted for Dimezone S with no loss of stability, but it is best to dissolve it in alcohol first together with salicylic acid.

    So he's talking about Phenidone B or Dimezone, not Phenidone A, but it implies that the salicylic acid is good for more than preserving ascorbate.
    Yes, that is the same page I'm refering to. The context of that section is the mixing of an ascorbic acid developer.

    In another post (I can't find the URL) Suzuki goes into great detail about the the beneficial effects of salicylic acid for the preservation of the ascorbates in ascorbic acid developers.

    Suzuki advocates the use of salicylic acid in both his DS-14 (Dimezone-S/Ascorbic acid) and Ds-15 (Metol/Ascorbic acid) developers.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  6. #16
    mts
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    I use Dimezone S in formulation for a T-Max developer clone. There was considerable discussion about this agent versus Phenidone in a series of privately published photo bulletins that ran in the early 1980's, way before Internet communications. It is better than Phenidone in the T-Max formulation, but I doubt it will make much difference in your Pyrocat formula.

    Dimezone S is also preferred in E-6 first developer formulae that are MPQ solutions. Here is the note I have in my formulary:

    1% Dimezone-S solution with 2% Sod. Sulfite can be used in place of Phenidone base. See D. Neville SuperBulletin #37 for a discussion of the advantages of Dimezone S versus Phenidone. Multiply phenidone by 1.27 to give the Dimezone S substitution amount.

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