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  1. #1
    hpulley's Avatar
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    How to get real red out of selenium toning?

    Is there any way to get a real red out of Berg Selenium toner? I have MGWT paper which I love alone and I do like the selenium tones for some pictures but for others I prefer the real red of Berg Copper but it isn't archival of course. Berg Selenium 1+3 seems to go more light brown eggplant than red with MGWT, darker and deeper black purple with MGIV even after a full 10:00. Split toning Selenium followed by Copper doesn't do what I want, it reddens the highlights, not the shadows and mid tones.

    Is Ilford Galerie paper redder in selenium? Is KRST or Ilford Selenium redder or is selenium always the same redness? Any other warm tone papers go to actual red in selenium or am I stuck with non-archival copper which gives me the tone I want?

    Ilford MGWT untoned:

    Misty morning river in MGWTFB by Harry Pulley, on Flickr

    Ilford MGWT Berg Selenium 1+3 10:00:

    Selenium toned Misty River by Harry Pulley, on Flickr

    Ilford MGIV Berg Copper 1+3:

    Misty Morning River Copper Toned by Harry Pulley, on Flickr
    Harry Pulley - Visit the BLIND PRINT EXCHANGE FORUM

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  2. #2
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    The colour is partially due to grain size, so a warmer tone film/developer combination is better.

    I can get a redder colour from Forte Plyearmtone, in ID-78 and KRST. The toners differ slightly but prior development etc are important.

    Ian

  3. #3
    hpulley's Avatar
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    This image is grainy on thje negative, Delta 400 pushed to 1600 in HC-110. I used Bromophen 1+3 developer.
    Harry Pulley - Visit the BLIND PRINT EXCHANGE FORUM

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  4. #4
    hpulley's Avatar
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    I have an ID-78 formula in a book and Digital Truth has one as well. Is that warmer than Bromophen, Multigrade, PQ Universal, Dektol? Those ones I can get locally, for anything else I'll have to order it in.

    Polywarmtone is going to be tough, guess I can add my name to the pre-order list...

    Would Selenium 1+9 or 1+19 give me redder results than 1+3? Seems counterintuitive.
    Last edited by hpulley; 03-13-2011 at 03:22 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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  5. #5
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    How about Sepia toning before the selenium? Seems to me that produces a redder image with some papers.

    Both toners are "archival".
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  6. #6
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    A warm tone paper in warm tone developer (ID78) longer exposure/shorter dev time will give quite red tones. However there's so many variables you'll need to fine tune.

    A selenium-Sulphide flemish toner works well with colder tone papers.

    Ian

  7. #7
    Mats_A's Avatar
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    If you tone in sepia first and then in gold you can get salmon red tones. You should get Rudman's "Toning book". It tells you ALL you will ever need to know about toning.

    r

    Mats
    Digital is for communication, film is for documentation.


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/studiopirilo

  8. #8

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    I echo Mats statement and have just looked through Tim's book. There is one print in it which comes close to what you seem to want with gold after polysulphide and this would be archival. However if you want a replica of print 3 you have shown then it looks like only copper will do that but hey you might look at Tim's book and choose some print as being what you need that I would never have thought met your requirements in a million years.

    Simple tea toning with a South African tea which from its Afrikaans name translates as redbush tea might get close. It really is much redder than normal "black" tea but in the land of coffee may be difficult or impossible to get.

    I suspect it may work well. If you are a tea drinker like me it tastes nice as well. Not likely to be archival though.

    pentaxuser

  9. #9
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    The question was about Selenium toners

    But yes sepia tone then gold tone, you can get skin tones and deeper reds.

    Ian

  10. #10

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    Fotospeed Palette Red. Yes it is a copper toner but Selenium is only so so archival anyway
    Mark
    Mark Layne
    Nova Scotia
    and Barbados

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