Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,821   Posts: 1,581,770   Online: 1038
      
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 28
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Selah, WA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    255

    Gelatin Failure Kodak in 70's?

    A thread on another list (metal lathes) talked about an emulsion failure in Kodak film in the 70's. Perhaps Photo Engineer can fill in the story?

  2. #2
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,525
    Images
    65
    I am not aware of anything of that sort. Sorry. Direct us to the source or give some data please.

    Thanks.

    PE

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Selah, WA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    255
    "Kodak Company, you know the people that used
    to make film, got burned one year in the 70's when some cattle
    ranchers changed the feed on their cattle. Film emulsion was made
    from hides and hoofs of cows, like Jello. Well the feed change,
    changed the chemistry of the emulsion..."

    That was about the total of the conversation. Decided to see if there was any truth to the statement.

  4. #4
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,525
    Images
    65
    OMG. He is referring to something from about 1920. Kodak used active gelatin then and the cows ate Mustard Grass which put more Sulfur into the gelatin and fogged the film. This led to the discovery of Sulfur sensitization and led to increased film speeds.

    There was no problem in 1970. Terrible misquote. Please correct them if you can.

    Thanks.

    PE

  5. #5
    Vaughn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Humboldt Co.
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    4,754
    Images
    40
    And I thought gelatin was from connective tissue -- not hoofs and hides.

    Hooves and hide, I thought, were the sources of glue...I could equally be wrong there!
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Selah, WA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    255
    That'll be fun,,, Seeing where this actually came from.

    I'll see if he was running on experience or just a memory of a published issue. These sorts of things usually have some interesting bit of truth to them somewhere.
    Last edited by Grif; 03-22-2011 at 07:37 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #7
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,525
    Images
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn View Post
    And I thought gelatin was from connective tissue -- not hoofs and hides.

    Hooves and hide, I thought, were the sources of glue...I could equally be wrong there!
    Gelatin can be made from any part of an animal including fish and chickens. The hooves and hides are not generally used in photography. We use Ossein (bone) gelatin from cows or pigs, but pigs contribute more parts. They don't really have hooves!

    The fraction of gelatin (during the process each batch is a fraction until they reach the bottom) or the source of the gelatin gives the final product its BI (Bloom Index) which is related to gel strength and viscosity. Hooves and Skin make the best glue due to having a high BI.

    PE

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Southern USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,125
    Quote Originally Posted by Grif View Post
    A thread on another list (metal lathes) talked about an emulsion failure in Kodak film in the 70's. Perhaps Photo Engineer can fill in the story?
    This what I hate about the internet! Once something false gets mentioned it becomes impossible to stop.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Earth
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,560
    I suspect he meant the 1800's and even then he was off by a decade or two.
    OTOH, it is still not impossible to imagine, although the animals are, IIRC, actually sourced from many areas and not restricted to specfic ranches.

    Ray

  10. #10
    Wade D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Jamul, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    892
    Images
    3
    Is modern film still made using gelatin from animals? Isn't there a synthetic product that would be as good or better? No, this isn't an animal rights thing, I'm just curious. In the early 70's I used gelatin cubes to brew up an emulsion batch from a formula that was from the early 1900's. Coated on to 4x5 glass plates it worked remarkably well but was REALLY slow. I wish I still had the formula. It was lost many moves ago but I still have one surviving glass plate. A little off the original topic but I thought it would be fun to share.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin