Unofficial Ilford update (products)

[Ed Sukach]

Over he last X years, and having been an active member of, and an intense student of management, I have discovered one undeniable truth, and formulated "Sukach's First Law of Management": "The companies that compensate their employees the most are invariably the most successful." That really began with a rather ... or in fact, VERY, odd genius named Henry Ford - when he decided to pay his sweepers of the floor an incredible FIVE dollars a day!!

Over the years, that has remained true ... through companies like the original IBM, Xerox, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Polaroid, Lotus ...
Only when the decided to "economize" by slashing the payroll of the rank and file did their significant slide to oblivion begin.

Sounds strange, I know ... but I've yet to see ONE instance that contradicted this law.

A reporter once asked Ford about his weird decision to pay his workers so much. The answer, "Well, if I didn't, who would have enough money to buy my cars?". Unfortunately, that is exactly what I see happening right now.

Has anyone see the Cadillac commercial that screams ... "Finally - AMERICA builds a WORLD CLASS car!" - And at the very end, it states, much more quietly - in a whisper .... "Assembled in the United States from parts produced elsewhere."

Sadly, I see the old Chinese curse being activated: "May you live in interesting times."

[bjorke]

...one undeniable truth, and formulated "Sukach's First Law of Management": "The companies that compensate their employees the most are invariably the most successful."

Okay, explain Ken Lay. Or Iacocca. Or Eisner. Or Cheney.

Be careful that you don't reverse the relationships between cause and effect.

[dr bob]

Okay, explain Ken Lay. Or Iacocca. Or Eisner. Or Cheney.

Be careful that you don't reverse the relationships between cause and effect.

I think that depends on your definition of "successful".

Sorry, I agree with Ed, even though our politics are different. I was Chairman of the Board of Directors of a non-profit "Chesterwye Center", a service organization for mentally and physically challenged adults. When I took over the chair, the organization had a severe "revolving door" problem. Hourly wage employees would come in, get trained and go. The clients were hurt - badly. I instituted a rather large (20%) pay increase, and overhauled the leave policy. Within one year, the annual budget rose from just under $1M to over $2M and now is moving toward $3M. The revolving door has been closed and all employees, hourly and salary, B&W, Hispanic and WASP are a (more or less) happy family. We have the highest hourly wage mental health employees on "the Shore" and we, unfortunently, have to turn some clients away until we get funds and facilities to accommodate them.

[Dave Miller]

"The companies that compensate their employees the most are invariably the most successful."

I think Ed’s quite right.
Now how do I get the concept over to my boss?

[Tom Duffy]

Sorry Ed, I'd like to agree, but since globalization it's a different ball game. Which shirt do you buy given a choice a $30 made in another country or a $80 shirt made in this country by a worker with a living wage and benefits? Doesn't really matter what you would do, the rest of America has voted with it's wallet.
Look at the airline industry - United, US Air, Northwest all on the brink of bankruptcy. the newer carriers, with less burdensome wage/benefit packages and no huge pension plan payments are doing much better.
My own field is IT. Companies say "Why pay $60,000 for a starting programmer when I can pay $5,000 for the equivalent in India?" and they're right. This offshoring places a huge burden on domestic IT middle management, but companies don't really care. I haven't had a raise since 2000 and year end bonus has gone through the floor, but I consider myself lucky to still have a job.
My theory on globalization is this: consider the locks on the Panama canal. if one area of water is 20 feet higher than the others (think standard of living), protected by locks, (think preglobalization). open the locks and the world's standard of living is incrementally improved while the old first world has a drastic decline in standard of living. And, as they said in the old Batman TV series, "The worst is yet to come!"
Take care,
Tom

[FrankB]

Thanks TPP -

You're right of course. i don't know who Les is, and I'm not likely to be swayed by someone who tries to hold an aura of authority and says "I told you so" when Ilford is vulnerable and heading down and out (ish). I haven't been on this forum long, but if someone says opportunistically says "I told you so", by gum that has to be one of the most irritating and unhelpful statements. They've clearly been repeating themselves ad nauseam. And don't say I didn't tell you so ;*)


We all have valuable experience to learn from: my problem is that the way Ilford and film-based photography is being pushed out by commercial factors, I'm not going to get 30 years out of using film based emulsion let alone 3.

Digital photography and its future dresscoats will be here for a longer time - this thread is about Ilford's traditional material - not about digital as an alternative. That's what I mean about hijacking a thread - it's so easy to insert *digital* as an option when Ilford is in receivership.

What I like(d) about this thread (in all my immaturity - yep - I'm not socially adept am I) is that I can vent my neuroses about Ilford products and learn about Ilford unofficially.

Sorry if I offended anyone - clearly I need to brush up on my social skills. Time to go back to working in the darkroom (all alone now ;>)

Tom, I have to say that I think you're way off base here. Les is one of the most unassuming people I know. Any "aura of authority" you may perceive is passed to him by choice by those who know of his experience and expertise rather than paraded by him. In particular, suggesting that Les find a different forum to express his views is (in my opinion), completely out of order.

Les, as Tony has stated, has very close ties with a lot of the Ilford staff. The redundancies at Ilford so far have affected a number of his friends, which puts it very much closer to home for him than most of the rest of us. I don't agree with all of his points, but I will listen with respect to any views he cares to put forward.

This is a free forum where everyone (including both yourself and Les) has the right to express their views. We do, however, try to keep it civil. That is one of the key differences between APUG and most of the other forums on the 'net.

As Mr Callow says, the ignore feature is provided for your convenience should you disagree particularly strongly with a member's views.

Regards,

Frank

[John Cook]

One purpose of this thread seems to be to speculate about the future of Ilford. Based upon simple laws of capitalism, that should be obvious.

Law One: No consumer is willing to pay one cent more for a product than he has to.

Law Two: All investors, including simple everyday folks with tiny bank savings accounts, will always put their money where it earns the highest rate of return.

Law Three: Entrepreneurs, in order to satisfy both groups, must keep their overhead as low as possible.

Law Four: Politicians get elected with a majority of the votes. Since there are more workers than business owners, successful politicians tend to gravitate toward labor’s point of view.

It takes a few years, but to stay in office, lawmakers continue to award their constituents tougher safety standards, tighter pollution controls, higher welfare payments, etc. And of course the bill for all of this is sent to the “big, wealthy corporations who can best afford to pay it”.

After a while, the economic conditions become “mature” and it becomes absolutely impossible to operate a business at a profit. The manufacturers are forced to seek greener, cheaper, pastures elsewhere off shore. This is exactly what has happened here in the extremely liberal People’s Republic of Massachusetts. Best welfare in the USA, but no jobs. The Rust Belt, you know. Also pretty well describes the business climate in the UK.

For the last half-decade, Ilford’s operating costs have exceeded their gross revenue by about one million dollars per month. Who in his right mind would want to purchase that insanity?

I suspect the answer is that the venture capital boys are patiently waiting, as Ilford slowly twists in the wind and her selling price continues to drop. When the time and price are right, they will pounce, buy up the equipment, formulae for the top-selling 10% of the product line and hightail it for Asia.

[FrankB]

Alternatively, Bill Gates might wake up one morning, realise that not everything in life revolves around ones and zeroes, buy Ilford from his pocket change, reinstate the staff, invest heavily in R&D, start an aggressive advertising campaign, go toe-to-toe with the digital hordes, reverse the trend, secure traditional photography's future side-by-side as a viable alternative to digital processes, sponsor high-profile international fine-art printing competitions....

Nurse, nurse, my medication, quickly!

For a moment there the future almost made sense...

[Dave Miller]

Tom, I have to say that I think you're way off base here. Les is one of the most unassuming people I know. Any "aura of authority" you may perceive is passed to him by choice by those who know of his experience and expertise rather than paraded by him. In particular, suggesting that Les find a different forum to express his views is (in my opinion), completely out of order.

Les, as Tony has stated, has very close ties with a lot of the Ilford staff. The redundancies at Ilford so far have affected a number of his friends, which puts it very much closer to home for him than most of the rest of us. I don't agree with all of his points, but I will listen with respect to any views he cares to put forward.

This is a free forum where everyone (including both yourself and Les) has the right to express their views. We do, however, try to keep it civil. That is one of the key differences between APUG and most of the other forums on the 'net.

As Mr Callow says, the ignore feature is provided for your convenience should you disagree particularly strongly with a member's views.

Regards,

Frank

Very succinctly put Frank, a veiwpoint with which I wholeheartedly agree.

[donbga]

For example, I have a friend called Pradip Malde who produces the most exquisite platinum prints who did a body of work called Prayer and Despair but when I took a friend who was a wonderful photographer in his own right to see the show he thought it was rubbish, I loved it.

I'm not sure if 'Prayer and Despair' is Pradip's latest body of work but if it is the stuff that he showed here in Atlanta last October it is pure crap IMO. I wasn't alone in my reaction, most everyone I spoke to that viewed the work during his artist talk was disappointed, bored and confused with his work. I don't even think he prints palladium prints any longer and has switched entirely to Piezography (which really doesn't bother me).

His work from several years ago was very good, much of it abstract, but his latest stuff seems to demand that the viewer read a lengthy and convoluted artiist statement to even get a clue as to what his visual intent might be.

Don Bryant