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  1. #11
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    You can do whatever you want. I use partial bleach-back and toning in sulfide or thiourea to get varying degrees of effect. If you bleach back with dilute bleach, you will only tone a portion of the tone range - the highlights. The longer you tone and the more concentrated your bleach is, the farther down into the tonal range you will go.
    I usually do this first and follow up with selenium toning, which works more from the 'bottom up', while the sepia works from the 'top down'. I this way can get a varying degree of warmth in highlights and/or shadows. The first sepia toning affects how the selenium toning affects the print as well, so some experimentation is definitely called for.

    And, finally, when toning, there are no rules. Look at guys like Tim Rudman, Wolfgang Moersch, Bob Carnie, Guillaume Zuili, Bill Schwab - and how they tone their prints. Mr Carnie, for example, sometimes uses up to three or four different toners on the same print. Throw rules out the window, have fun, experiment, and make sure to wash your prints really well between steps.

    Have fun!

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  2. #12

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    I have quite a bit more pleasing images now....

    One of the major problems with my previous try was that I intentionally printed the original print a bit darker expecting the reduction effect on Sepia toners. Because I have so much shadow area, that made the print way too red. In original print, too much black wasn't offensive but too much red was.

    This time, I used prints that are at the right density. I have one set I bleached 100% and redeveloped to completion. It's red but much more pleasing red, not screaming red now. I have another set where I bleached to about 50%, redeveloped to completion, and followed it up with Selenium toner for 4 minutes. Selenium part made the shadow area slightly darker without adding more red. I like the results as well.

    I still don't have a "hint of sepia" type print. I'm going to have to pull the print much sooner next time.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  3. #13
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    ... I still don't have a "hint of sepia" type print. I'm going to have to pull the print much sooner next time.
    Please listen to Ian (and me) and try direct toning. It will give you exactly what you want, 'a hint of sepia', and it's a lot easier to control.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  4. #14
    jovo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    Please listen to Ian (and me) and try direct toning. It will give you exactly what you want, 'a hint of sepia', and it's a lot easier to control.
    Ralph, do you know the formulation of this direct toner so that one can make it up without buying a kit? Knowing the prescription would also help in experimenting with whatever tweaks might present themselves.

    BTW, to all who might go this route, according to Tim Rudman, sulphide toners need to be used quite apart from photosensitive materials like film and printing paper, so get them out of the DR for the toning process, or do that work apart from the vulnerable material.
    John Voss

    My Blog

  5. #15
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jovo View Post
    Ralph, do you know the formulation of this direct toner so that one can make it up without buying a kit? Knowing the prescription would also help in experimenting with whatever tweaks might present themselves. ...
    If you cannot get a hold of Kodak Brown Toner or Agfa Viradon, use the attached formula.

    Quote Originally Posted by jovo View Post
    ... BTW, to all who might go this route, according to Tim Rudman, sulphide toners need to be used quite apart from photosensitive materials like film and printing paper, so get them out of the DR for the toning process, or do that work apart from the vulnerable material.
    Good point! For this and other reasons, it's not recommended to store film or paper in the darkroom.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PolysulfideToner.jpg  
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    Please listen to Ian (and me) and try direct toning. It will give you exactly what you want, 'a hint of sepia', and it's a lot easier to control.

    I intend to. I just don't have one handy at the moment.

    ... and I do all of my stinky toning outside. I know about the fogging issue.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  7. #17
    jovo's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=RalphLambrecht;1167241]If you cannot get a hold of Kodak Brown Toner or Agfa Viradon, use the attached formula.

    Thank you very much, Ralph. I'll try this.
    John Voss

    My Blog

  8. #18
    brian steinberger's Avatar
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    The best a cheapest sepia toner can get is to make your own! All you need is potassium ferricyanide, potassium bromide, thiocarbamide and sodium hydroxide. All color combinations can be obtained from these 4 chems. Easy to mix and easy to control.

    Working solutions:

    Bleach:
    Pot Ferri 10g
    Pot Bromide 5g
    Water to make 1 liter

    Toner:
    Thiocarbamide 10g
    Sodium Hydroxide 3g-10g (yellow to brownish red)
    Water to make 1 liter

    Ralph and Ian's recommendation for a Brown toner is an excellent one. I prefer Agfa Viradon and use it with Ilford MGWT with wonderful beautiful "sepia" tones.

  9. #19
    brian steinberger's Avatar
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    I just realized you said you prefer to not mix your own. Although I highly recommend mixing your own, PF sepia kits should be just as good as any other sepia toning kits. I would certainly still consider trying Viradon though! Excellent!!

  10. #20

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    I'm going to order one from Freestyle. It appears to have a clone of Kodak brown toner under Legacy Pro brand...
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

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