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  1. #11
    Usagi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbourayou View Post
    I hope this experience will help someone that, unfortunately, is in a similar situation.
    Any suggestion/commentary?
    I learned my lesson about year ago when most of my films were badly fogged by the new x-ray device of the Narita Airport, Japan. Gone was most of the pictures I took during 2 month trip.

    All I can say is that I know the pain. And there's not much to do for films.

    I was stupid. I was aware that checked packages will be scanned with a more powerful scanner than a hand packages.
    But as I had for a years put some films on the checked packages without any problems, I thought that the danger is way too overstated.


    It was not. Especially at that moment when the new bomb scanning device was installed...


    The so called 'lead bags' are worth of nothing. The scanner will pass thru them easily.
    The lead bag should be really heavy if it would give protection. If you have X-ray'ed in the hospital or dentist, you know how heavy stuff the protecting lead is.

    The lead bags are just marketing hype.

  2. #12

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    I read recently an account of the import, for restoration, of a vintage truck to the UK, by a guy who drove it from Germany. Apparently it was fully X-rayed for hidden compartments on arriving in the UK....so obviously some very powerful test gear is used.

    (He said he got a very blunt reply from the Customs guy when he asked if he could have the X-rays as a souvenir. )

  3. #13
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbourayou View Post
    First of all thank you for posting, I appreciate having so many opinions!

    Athrivil and 2F/2F: Great info that you sent! It sounds pretty useless to send out some films then. I will now bring then in the airplane, as aforementioned. I renounced to use lead bag because of the issue raised by Leigh: the boxes had been opened at the customs, and I suppose that the dark mass of the lead bag on the screen of the Xray machine would have led to further irradiation. Leigh, you are right, it was a risk to send it in the freight. But I could not imagine crossing the border with 40 films in the backpack (+ laptop + 2 cameras..). But, hey, I tried my luck



    True! I have here and there a slight streak on the film, but until now what I have seen is pretty even.
    I just developed and scanned a TriX 400 that I had exposed slower, as 100 and 200 ASA, just to try. And it works, the scans are usable when the film is pulled during development. The 100 ASA images have denser blacks, they get scanned better. The celluloid seems also a bit lighter, probably due to the reduced time in the developer.
    It's ironical, I had brought these films for their good results when pushed in Xtol.... anyway...

    Thanks for all your suggestions and comments!

    How keen are you on amateur home chemistry?



    Quote Originally Posted by Usagi View Post
    I learned my lesson about year ago when most of my films were badly fogged by the new x-ray device of the Narita Airport, Japan. Gone was most of the pictures I took during 2 month trip.

    All I can say is that I know the pain. And there's not much to do for films.

    I was stupid. I was aware that checked packages will be scanned with a more powerful scanner than a hand packages.
    But as I had for a years put some films on the checked packages without any problems, I thought that the danger is way too overstated.


    It was not. Especially at that moment when the new bomb scanning device was installed...


    The so called 'lead bags' are worth of nothing. The scanner will pass thru them easily.
    The lead bag should be really heavy if it would give protection. If you have X-ray'ed in the hospital or dentist, you know how heavy stuff the protecting lead is.

    The lead bags are just marketing hype.

    They're not hype, no matter how thin, they attenuate (reduce) the signal. They are for onboard luggage/body scanners. The degree of attenuation drops more and more as the power of the scanner goes up, so it's a double edged sword..

  4. #14

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    [QUOTE=Athiril;1202797]How keen are you on amateur home chemistry?

    Hi Athiril (I think that I misspelled your name last time, sorry!)


    I'm more of a physicist than a chemist, but I'm open to experimentation if you have a recipe of relevance.
    I am new here in Brazil and I have to find where to buy some basic chemical products - my search for isopropanol (lens cleaner) for example, still did not bring any significant result.

    Usagi, did you succeed in doing anything with these films?

    Quote Originally Posted by railwayman3 View Post
    (He said he got a very blunt reply from the Customs guy when he asked if he could have the X-rays as a souvenir. )
    Was worth a try

  5. #15
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    There are packaging labels available warning not to X-ray, if you don't use them and mark the package as containing photographic film then you've done yourself no favours.

    Items are usually initially scanned with the same scanners as carry on baggage and only get sent for more invasive X-ray scans if suspect or ambiguous. Films need ideally to be packaged separately away from other items. Major airports are well aware that films get sent through the post and will take the necessary precautions if they aware they are in a package.

    Ian

  6. #16

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    I have just completed a UK->Slovenia->Turkey->UK trip with more than a handful of 120 film, alongside a Rolleicord in my hand luggage. At all check points I told them my film was sensitive to X-Rays, and requested hand inspection, which they did.

    Only in the UK they took an additional swab.

  7. #17
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbourayou View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Athiril View Post
    How keen are you on amateur home chemistry?
    Hi Athiril (I think that I misspelled your name last time, sorry!)


    I'm more of a physicist than a chemist, but I'm open to experimentation if you have a recipe of relevance.
    I am new here in Brazil and I have to find where to buy some basic chemical products - my search for isopropanol (lens cleaner) for example, still did not bring any significant result.

    Usagi, did you succeed in doing anything with these films?



    Was worth a try
    I know you can get isopropyl at bigger supermarkets here in spray bottles and hardware shops.

    Well if youd like to experiment.. I've found halogen gases bleach like a rehal bleach..without washing out sensitising dyes etc, so you can gas out the fog (you only need very small amounts).

    Chlorine gas is easy to make but will knock out the silver iodide and bromide.. and bromide will knock out the iodide.. so you can iodine based gas.. iodine metal sublimates readily at room temperature, but my experiment with elemental bromine fumes at low temp; found it left bromine deposits on the film at 6-12c ("room" temp here atm) since it's below the b.p. for gas phase.


    Potassium Permanganate solution with some sulphuric acid catalyst will do it, add potassium iodide (100g on ebay is $17-$25 inc international shipping).

    Iodine won't knock out bromide halide, but should bleach silver to silver iodide to remove fog, might get full speed back, not sure how the extra iodide would affect the emulsion.



    Not sure how elemental iodine would fair as far as leaving deposits on the film at room temp, but you can set up a reaction to just produce HI gas instead of elemental iodine.

    Iodine escapes easily, as does bromine, leaving the tank with the lid off for a few days outside should let it escape off the film if it does.

    You just want a small amount of the solution in the bottom of a processing tank after loading your film, make sure the reel is suspended high enough so it doesn't get wet from the solution so the film stays dry (or put a second reel below it).


    Put the lid on the tank after pouring the mix (the lid will pop off if there is pressure, but I've found there hasn't been much with a small amount of chem, if you're paranoid, just sit the lid on top loosely).

    I found a few minutes was enough to bleach an entire fully developed film... so it should do as well for some fog just fine, take the lid off after some time and let the fumes/gas clear fully outside. You'll have to reload the film onto a reel with paper or canister in the dark bag for usage.


    Iodine shouldn't displace any other halides, so it'll bleach back the fog and not affect the rest of the emulsion... you'd have to test speed.. I think contrast will be changed with longer developing would be my assumption.




    Your other option might be SO2 gas, which you can make with sodium metabisulphite (steriliser/etc in the home brew section in the supermarket or home brew shop) mixed in water with citric acid (baking section) for easier to get chems, I dont think that should kick out halides (I haven't tried though), but it'll react with elemental silver to give silver sulphide or sulphate iirc... have to look it up.
    Last edited by Athiril; 06-30-2011 at 09:02 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #18
    Usagi's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=rbourayou;1202887]
    Quote Originally Posted by Athiril View Post

    Usagi, did you succeed in doing anything with these films?
    I got some good negatives and some negatives had only fogged edge.

    After I had developed the couple of films and realized that something terrible has happen, I cut a test strip from each roll and developed them and found some rolls with a less damage than others.

    Still having more than ten undeveloped rolls - the fogging seems so bad that I haven't had any motivation with these films.
    Some day, I'll develop them in a large batch..

  9. #19

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    It's been a long time... As chemistry is pretty hard to find here in the brazilian countryside, I tried to play with Rodinal concentration and the exposure of the films. It's the lazy way

    Just a small comment before: 2F/2F suggested that my films had been "badly cooked" during the journey, as there was no usual (sine or other) pattern to be found. I now tend to admit that this is right: the celluloid is uniformly dark in the wohloe batch of film I have been experimenting with in the last weeks.
    Pushing these films, involving longer times in the developer, only made the celluloid darker. So I tried to pull the films to get denser images on the darker background. And I reduced the concentration of Rodinal to 1:75. Here some results:

    TriX: hopeless, celluloid too dark. Films exposed at 100ASA and developed with Xtol or Rodinal (down to 1:75) are barely scanable.
    HP5+: Usable at 100ASA, scanable. The celluloid is darker than should be, but scanning is possible. Performed badly in the sunlight, better contrast in shady conditions. Contrast is.. weird.
    Neopan400: seemed the most resistant to the heat wave, usable at 200ASA and Rodinal up to 1:50, though the loss of contrast os stronger that inherent to the pulling process.

    So "cooked Neopan or HP5" seem still usable with constrains, though I can not say anything about their ability to print well. A good scanner and some tweaking should make it.

  10. #20
    Stuggi's Avatar
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    A thing I've always wanted to try is to get a order in straight with Ilford, and have them pack a X-Ray sensitive sheet of film with the rest of my order. Then you can tell the security guys that they under no circumstances can scan your luggage. And if they scanned it, you'd know in an instant, just develop the X-ray sheet when your stuff arrives.
    Canon F1n / FTb / AE-1P | Yashica Mat-124G | Hasselblad 500C/M | Leica IIIf

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