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  1. #11
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    It was a joke, hence the smiley.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  2. #12
    Sjixxxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fhovie
    Bottom line - the 4x5 is not so heavy and setup is not so much longer and the satisfaction in the prints is an order of magnitude nicer when the print is on the wall. I think I am still searching for a better mousetrap for smaller roll film cameras though.
    I always figure that is Rosenthal could take his 4x5 to the top of Mt. Suribachi where people are hiding out trying to kill him, then I can take mine to the park, or anywhere else, and not complain about being discomforted. I've taken my 4x5 rig into plenty of situations that are typically the realm of 35, and MF gear (like scaling seven foot walls to enter abandoned places), and in the end, the results where just that much more satisfying with the big negative. Pain & fatigue is temporary.
    Gear: Camera, Brain, Light.
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  3. #13
    fhovie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Duffy
    snip
    I think we need to strive to take pictures that would be good irrespective of the format used, otherwise it's more self-therapy than communication.
    Very true ... BUT - Imagine listening to the overture of 1812 on a 2" speaker and being told that for all its power, you will never be able to listen to it on a great stereo system.

    I was in Miami when Jeanne hit. I was on the 16th floor of the Fountainbleau on Miami beach and at night I put my Minolta SRT 102 on a window sill with techpan and left the shutter open for 30 minutes. The image is really interesting - the way the clouds streaked the sky and the palm trees became soft q-tips - The buildings stayed sharp and the surf flattened out. And for this pretty neat image, I will never be happy with it larger than 8x10 because at 11x14 it starts to get soft and this image deserves better. I just couln't bring anything of a higher caliber for this trip. I wish I had my 4x5. The point is - I created a very satisfying image that will never reach its full potential because of the format available. Such is the way it is with so many images.

    I guess I can photoshop the heck out of it ... OOPS DID I SAY THAT ... sorry

  4. #14

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    Tom Duffy said: "I think we need to strive to take pictures that would be good irrespective of the format used, otherwise it's more self-therapy than communication."

    Who said that photography has to be about communication? Or for that matter what is wrong with allowing our unconscious to communicate to us through our photography?

  5. #15
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    I have a 30x20 print on the wall that was made from a 35mm negative. Is it as sharp as the same scene taken on an 8x10 negative? No, it is not. Does it look bad in any way. No, it doesn't.

    One thing to consider when debating about enlarging; how many of us can contend with an enlarger of greater than 5x7? Probably not too many. My 4x5 Beseler sits on top of my rolling tool cabinet and I can pick it up and move it if necessary. Don't think I could do that with an 8x10 enlarger. In addition to its size, an 8x10 is a serious investment. So, the availablity of the enlarging equipment is most likely what dictates what camera format a person is limited to. But this argument reverses for contact printing.
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
    My Photography Blog

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Miller
    Tom Duffy said: "I think we need to strive to take pictures that would be good irrespective of the format used, otherwise it's more self-therapy than communication."

    Who said that photography has to be about communication? Or for that matter what is wrong with allowing our unconscious to communicate to us through our photography?

    Don,

    Photography does not have to be about communication. But Art is.

    Even if its only showing the world how we see it. We are saying something, about the world, and also about ourselves.

    And in that context, a photograph doesn't care what format or size camera is used, it cares if its the right choice to communicate the artist's thought.
    George Losse
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  7. #17
    colrehogan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Hawley
    I have a 30x20 print on the wall that was made from a 35mm negative. Is it as sharp as the same scene taken on an 8x10 negative? No, it is not. Does it look bad in any way. No, it doesn't.

    One thing to consider when debating about enlarging; how many of us can contend with an enlarger of greater than 5x7? Probably not too many. My 4x5 Beseler sits on top of my rolling tool cabinet and I can pick it up and move it if necessary. Don't think I could do that with an 8x10 enlarger. In addition to its size, an 8x10 is a serious investment. So, the availablity of the enlarging equipment is most likely what dictates what camera format a person is limited to. But this argument reverses for contact printing.
    I have a 20x30 Cibachrome made from a 35 mm EIR slide on my wall, so I know where you're coming from, Alex.

    As for enlarging, I don't own an enlarger, nor do I have room for one. I got an 8x10 last year so I could do some contact printing myself and I'm having a blast with it!
    Diane

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  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Duffy
    There's a lot to agree with in all these posts. In the ideal world you should use the largest format possible for the subject and conditions. Sometimes that's 11x14; sometimes it's 35mm. And, yes, I appreciate the difference even between a 4x6 print from a 100 speed 35mm film vs. the same 4x6 print from a 400 speed 35mm negative.

    To me, some of the most impressive photos I've seen are large format pictures of subject that most of us would have used a smaller format for, e.g., people pictures.
    Many of the photos taken with large format have a presence that only a contact print seems to provide.

    This approach is certainly not for all subjects. In fact, and especially on this forum, I think we often ask the question backwards. We ask, "would this picture I took with my 8x10 look nearly as good if I took it with my medium format or 35mm?" (of course it wouldn't!) But I think the question we ought ask ourselves more often is, "Craft aside, (admitting that is a real big aside) why bother taking this picture?" A great picture taken with a 35mm camera is a great picture. (Usually because of emotional content.) 8x10 "craft" prints often have no reason for being other than craft. Would they have any merit if taken with a 35mm camera?

    I think we need to strive to take pictures that would be good irrespective of the format used, otherwise it's more self-therapy than communication.
    This is a great point and i agree whole heartedly. A snap shot is a snap shot if it was taken with a 35mm disposable or 12x20. Both are meaningless. There are those who feel that their control of the craft and the fact that they use a big camera, makes it okay.

    Of course without the craft masters bumblers like me would be completely lost.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Losse
    Don,

    Photography does not have to be about communication. But Art is.
    Very nice.

    Is there art in craft? Maybe on a very small level, but for a photograph to sing, and cause the viewer stop for longer than a few seconds it has to say something.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  10. #20

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    A snap shot is a snap shot if it was taken with a 35mm disposable or 12x20. Both are meaningless. There are those who feel that their control of the craft and the fact that they use a big camera, makes it okay.
    I once heard someone say about a fellow photographer... "He takes pictures that only other photographers will appreciate". We get so hung up on techniques etc... That it's easy to lose sight of the fact that the CONTENT is what is important. Format is the tool... We choose the tools that we feel work for US.


    And in that context, a photograph doesn't care what format or size camera is used, it cares if its the right choice to communicate the artist's thought.
    Exactly!

    joe

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