Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 75,800   Posts: 1,671,651   Online: 792
      
Page 11 of 17 FirstFirst ... 567891011121314151617 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 166
  1. #101

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    NYC
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    414
    Steve, great point on anchoring the shadows and thinner negs.

    For me though it also applies to non-pyro developers. Shadows and highlights come easily w/ understanding exposure and dev, but it took me years to discover how to begin to control midtones to put them where I wanted, and my first epiphany in that search was beginning to work w/ thinner negatives and, as you put it, anchoring the blacks.

    It's enlightening, if given the opportunity, to see what other photographers consider they're favorite negatives to print and resulting prints. Actually might be interesting thread.

  2. #102
    c6h6o3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    3,216
    Images
    6
    @Steve: With TMax, which has a very long straight line portion to its characteristic curve and almost no shoulder, all exposure does is slide the density range up or down that straight line portion. My epiphany was in realizing that no matter where I put that image's density range on the curve, the paper I print on can't hold anywhere near the density range that the film can. What development does is lengthen or shorten that density range. In my experience, two separate parameters. Yes, you can expose a negative so much that you lose control in development and vice versa, but we're never that extreme.

    But now you've got me reexamining my working methods, because almost all of my negatives of late will only print at about Grade 2-1/2 (G3 Azo with water bath). I will try backing off on exposure a little and expanding development a little to see if I can't come closer to a Grade 2 standard.

    BTW, the last time I visited the photographer you mentioned I saw some of his new work and it was jaw dropping. I'd never seen finer prints. I asked him what his new secret was, because something had definitely changed and he said "thinner negatives". He was forced to slide the density range of his negatives down the curve and expand development a little because his film is so fogged. (Base fog around density .5). While his density range is the same as it has always been, the overall density is lower.
    Jim

  3. #103
    c6h6o3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    3,216
    Images
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sherman View Post

    first find a Z2 tonality and then determine the relationship between that Z2 tonality and what I perceive to be important shadow values. So long as those values are within 2 zones of one another I have found my exposure value.
    What do you do with a flat scene where there are no Z2 values? I've been encountering this a lot lately.
    Jim

  4. #104
    Steve Sherman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    523
    Images
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by c6h6o3 View Post
    What do you do with a flat scene where there are no Z2 values? I've been encountering this a lot lately.
    Semi-Stand baby! No question!

    The print you like so much of mine was exposed with only three zones of tonality registering on the meter. Exposed lowest reading on Z 3 and let the the SS do the rest. Those negs were the first I'd ever developed that way, I exposed JC 200 @ 200, a 1:175 ratio of Pyrocat HD, an educated guess that worked perfectly and I went with a 60 minute total time in solution with one agitation cycle @ 30 M.

    BTW, the photog you mention, he actually saw those negs in person and to put it mildly was dumbstruck, you know the quote of his in the View Camera article.

    You don't suppose, nah, couldn't be, you think he made an adjustment after seeing my negs and prints?

    Next Friday, first Friday in Louisville, will miss ya, but will have one / two in your honor.

    Cheers!
    Real Photographs are Born Wet !
    http://www.steve-sherman.com

  5. #105

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Southern USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,808
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    I cannot get any fully scientifically tested [with proper controls] results stating that staining is either good or bad. Most threads that try to thrash that out get into flame wars and I stop reading them.
    Steve
    This is what I found when researching a question on another thread. When you try to research staining developers what you find is speculation and personal bias with little real information. For example, on this thread 5 people say to place the negative back in the used developer and 3 say don't do it. None of the 8 people offer any scientific basis for their opinion.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  6. #106

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,055
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sherman View Post
    ..........with Pyro negs and Multi Contrast paper, a well exposed, almost @ manufacturer's box speed and developed to a lower contrast index to yield some of the finest prints I have seen........


    Cheers
    I deliberately develop to a lowish contrast and find that VC papers behave better at medium to slightly higher contrast settings.

    Exposure has to be adequate, even a bit generous. Setting the ISO on the meter is only half the story: the way one points the meter and makes decisions is the other half.

    I should add that developing to a lower contrast makes the stain less extreme, and so avoids to some extent the drop in contrast in highlights that can be a problem when staining is very strong. I am sure that I'm still benefiting from the stain, though.

  7. #107
    Steve Sherman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    523
    Images
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    None of the 8 people offer any scientific basis for their opinion.
    To the core of the above quote I am guilty, certainly by scientific standards my observations hold little credence. My tests have always been making photographs and making only slight one at a time changes to my methodology. I hate garage doors and grafts.

    However, I have on scores of occasions emptied large waste baskets of both negatives and prints based on small adjustments and educated trial and error.

    Technology is a wonderful thing 95% of the time but let us not forget the eye test as the final grade.

    2 cents!
    Real Photographs are Born Wet !
    http://www.steve-sherman.com

  8. #108
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Toronto-Ontario
    Shooter
    Med. Format RF
    Posts
    4,957
    Images
    14
    Not speaking for the other 7 here but you are right Gerald I cannot offer a scientific basis for my opinion.

    What I can offer is over 30,000 roll processed in pyro , contacted then prints made from over the last 15 years. Not to mention the Sheets of film.

    Some people make charts and plot curves, drink wine and pontify about printing
    Others make a living from it and work 7 days a week at photography.

    Which group do you fall into??

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    This is what I found when researching a question on another thread. When you try to research staining developers what you find is speculation and personal bias with little real information. For example, on this thread 5 people say to place the negative back in the used developer and 3 say don't do it. None of the 8 people offer any scientific basis for their opinion.

  9. #109
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Toronto-Ontario
    Shooter
    Med. Format RF
    Posts
    4,957
    Images
    14
    Next week I get to see Sherman's Semi Stand Prints in Louisville, I hope he dosen't let me down, he has been talking a big story on this thread. Apparently there is a case of Dumante ordered , I hope Gittings dosen't show up.

  10. #110
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    14,812
    Images
    300
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    Next week I get to see Sherman's Semi Stand Prints in Louisville, I hope he dosen't let me down, he has been talking a big story on this thread. Apparently there is a case of Dumante ordered , I hope Gittings dosen't show up.
    I would love to see Steve's prints in person. I hear from other photographers I respect that they are outstanding.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin