Alkaline stop bath + TF5 fix

[tony lockerbie]

I use the following formula for development of Pyro negs:
TF-2
750ml Water
250gm sodium thiosulphate
15gm sodium sulphite
10gm sodium metaborate (kodalk)
make up to 1 litre
I use this undiluted and fix for 5 minutes, it will do about around 20 rolls. I never use an acid stop with Pyro, or and developer come to that, just a water rinse, changing the water around five times.
Not hard to do, i mix up some 20c water in a bucket and dip in the measure for the rinse. Takes a bit longer, but no hassle really.

[Photo Engineer]

The Freestyle ad says it is alkaline, but the Formulary ad does not: http://stores.photoformulary.com/-st...wan/Detail.bok

The formulary ad is correct!

You can use a stop or a running water rinse with TF-4 or TF-5. The difference is the odor and the pH as well as TF-5 being free of the sediment which is a necessary ingredient in TF-4.

PE

[2F/2F]

The Freestyle ad says it is alkaline, but the Formulary ad does not: http://stores.photoformulary.com/-st...wan/Detail.bok

If you click the "Tech Info" link on the Webpage you posted, or read the instructions that come with TF-5, you'll see that Freestyle's write up is taken directly from the Photographer's Formulary literature on the product. This is why I stated "Freestyle/Formulary." I didn't just make up the "/Formulary" part; I was naming the source of the information I had shared. If it's erroneous, then it's erroneous...but please don't say that Formulary does not state it and Freestyle does, as if Freestyle has made some huge error; it is not true. Freestyle's information is straight from the Formulary instructions.

[Photo Engineer]

Thanks. This was an error that slipped through. I have sent a note to fix it. The page I referenced had it correct, but the instruction sheet did not.

PE

[2F/2F]

A rather huge error indeed, and a long-lived one! (When did TF-5 come out? And this is just now being noticed?) The whole reason I started using TF-5 is because it was clearly stated that it was alkaline.

Even so, the reduction in acidity (or whatever other differences) it may have over my Ilford Hypam and Kodak Flexicolor Fixer has eliminated any pinhole problems I've had with Efke films. But I suppose that I should switch to TF-4 for my PMK negs.

[Photo Engineer]

The pH is 6.5. If it worked for you with the things you were doing, then no harm was done, but I will point out that the instructions do not say it is alkaline. The semantics is there to quibble, and it was an error, but the fact remains that it works.

Sorry for the error. All of us are human. No one caught it until this point.

PE

[2F/2F]

...but I will point out that the instructions do not say it is alkaline.

"Maintains an alkaline pH throughout the process." Not much to quibble about in regards to semantics. In order to maintain an alkaline pH throughout the process, the fixer must be alkaline.

I do not think any harm was done...but I am wondering if I will get a stronger stain with TF-4.

[Photo Engineer]

According to those who tested TF-5 with staining developers, it worked just fine.

I have sent the Formulary an updated sheet.

PE

[Greg Davis]

I also used to get pinholes in Efke film when developed in ABC Pyro. I still used plain rapid fixer, but I cut my indicator stop bath down by doubling the dilution of water. It didn't last as long, but the lower acidity stopped the pinholes while still stopping the development. Now, though, I use neither ABC Pyro nor Efke film.

[2F/2F]

I also used to get pinholes in Efke film when developed in ABC Pyro. I still used plain rapid fixer, but I cut my indicator stop bath down by doubling the dilution of water. It didn't last as long, but the lower acidity stopped the pinholes while still stopping the development. Now, though, I use neither ABC Pyro nor Efke film.

Interesting, because I always used a water stop with the Efke films. The pinholes were there regardless of this. They were minimized when I started using a water bath during processing, but they did not go away completely until I switched to TF-5 as well. But you use a stop bath and an acid fixer, and have no problems. Everybody's process is different.

I had not heard of alkaline stop baths until this thread. Based on PE's take on them, I don't think I will try one. I will stay with water with sensitive emulsions. I skip the stop entirely with PMK. I think I will give TF-4 a try and see if it gives a stronger image stain.

Just to clarify, TF-4 is alkaline, correct?