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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by john_s View Post
    Thanks Kirk. Now we know. So the "hypo" is not just archaic: it's incorrect and always has been.
    john:

    if you read what kirk said, it is RIGHT, because it is the olde name for the same thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Keyes View Post
    The compound used for fixing was originally called "hyposulphite of soda", which was the originally given to sodium thiosulphate, Na2S2O3 (sorry about the lack of subscripts).
    [/URL]

    thanks kirk,
    no petition needed !
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  2. #12
    Murray Kelly's Avatar
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    I must be an OOT - I know exactly what hypo is when mentioned in dispatches.

    It's the darned Ammonium Thiosulfate (thiosulphate?) that has me foxed.

    Not really

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    john:

    if you read what kirk said, it is RIGHT, because it is the olde name for the same thing.
    Actually, since the hyposulfite ion is not believed to exist, hyposulfite can't be correct.
    Kirk

    For up from the ashes, up from the ashes, grow the roses of success!

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Keyes View Post
    Actually, since the hyposulfite ion is not believed to exist, hyposulfite can't be correct.
    so they called sodium thiosulphate hyposulfite of soda, but it wasn't hyposulfite of soda at all ? sorry to ask such a strange question, but when did the scientists
    that "discovered" sodium thiosulphate realize that they had mis-labeled
    the chemical, and that there was no such thing as hyposulfite ?

    sorry john s, i obviously misunderstood what kirk said !



    john
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  5. #15
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Keyes View Post
    Actually, since the hyposulfite ion is not believed to exist, hyposulfite can't be correct.
    Again, it can't exist in the IUPAC nomenclature. It can exist in historical chemical usage, and it existed, and it still exists. It's a name and it has a conventional nature. Just like "rose".
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
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  6. #16
    CBG
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    Lots of things get names that are later proven to be misleading. In photography, no matter how chemically incorrect, "hypo" is historically synonymous with "fixer". I'm not sure we are very likely to undo that. Whether or not a chemist would use the term "hypo" in non-photographic environments, in the darkroom, hypo does exist, I use it, you use it...

    The real problem happens when beginners and folks who use language carelessly mix up "hypo" with Kodak's "Hypo Clearing Agent". I don't know how many times I've posted to try to urge that novices be aware of the difference between fixer and wash aid.

    Another term that gets misused is "Hypo Eliminator". Despite the fact that beginners and some sloppy darkroom teachers have conflated the terms, "Hypo Eliminator" is not equivalent to wash aid.

    "Hypo Eliminator" is a Kodak formula for Kodak Hypo Eliminator HE-1 - a specialized solution to remove the last microscopic traces of fix from emulsions after all ordinary washing has been sucessfully completed. It is by no means synonymous with ordinary wash aids, which are intended to remove the bulk of fix from an emulsion. "Hypo Eliminator" is no longer recommended as an archival treatment since, evidently, it does more harm than good.

    So, the process would be (if Hypo Eliminator was still a recommended treatment, which it is not): first fix, then wash aid, and then wash, then Hypo Eliminator, then a second wash.

  7. #17

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    Regardless of how common "hypo" is now, if we personally each would by choice use the term "fixer" or "thiosulfate", then the less the term "hypo" is used the sooner it will rightfully be seen as archaic and a token of a lack of knowledge.

  8. #18

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    Much ado about nothing, IMO. What real difference does it make whether it is called hypo or fixer? As someone pointed out, if you could convince everyone to call it "fixer", and convince Kodak to rename their HCA to Fixer Clearing Agent, the "twitter brains" could just as easily shorten "Fixer Clearing Agent" to "Fixer" and you'd end up with the same confusion.

    People learn the hard way. Correct the ones you can and don't worry about the rest. What's it going to cost them? One roll of film is all it'll take for them to learn the difference.

    Good luck trying to eliminate hypo from the photographer's lexicon. I predict that will never happen.

  9. #19
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    I didn't learn at the side of a lab rat, I learned from books. Good books are still available as is an abundance of accurate information on the 'net, most of it text. If someone is too impatient to seek out decent info and exercise a modicum of discretion in their sources I too say they deserve what they get. I'm very willing to help out folks just starting in film or other areas I may have some knowledge of but I'm frankly a bit tired of the mollycoddling of those with the attention spans of a ferret on a sugar high.

    It is an inaccurate name but that doesn't matter. If someone can't figure out that a chemical called "Phizbin Clearing Agent" is used to clear film of "Phizbin" then too bad.

  10. #20

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    Being a Kirk, I can tell you that everyone knows it's spelled "Fizzbin"... And there are rules for it too.

    Each player gets six cards, except for the player on the dealer's right, who gets seven. The second card is turned up, except on Tuesdays. Two jacks are a "half-fizzbin." A third jack is a "shralk" and is grounds for disqualification. With two jacks, one wants a king and a deuce, except at night, when one wants a queen and a four. The top hand is a "royal fizzbin," but the odds of getting one are "astronomical".
    Kirk

    For up from the ashes, up from the ashes, grow the roses of success!

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