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  1. #1

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    grainy ... films under the microscope

    some time ago I had put some different black and white films under the microscope. I had just been interested in how grain looks and what "fine" and "coarse" grain really means. I thought it would also be intersting for other so I will put these here.

    Four images of each film with different magnifications. As the scalebars are not easily readable, here the values (from top left to bottom right): 500Ám, 100Ám, 50Ám, 20Ám

    The film/developer combos I had looked at first were:

    Ilford FP4+ (@ 125ISO) in Rodinal 1:25
    Kodak TriX (@ 400ISO) in Rodinal 1:50
    Fuji Acros (@ 80ISO) in Spur SD2525
    Ilford Delta400 (@ 800ISO) in Rodinal 1:25

    I will add more combos within the next days if you are interested in. All films had been 120s medium format developed by hand in a Jobo drum (tilting style) using the datasheet recepies or the mass dev chart.

    PHILIP
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ilford-FP4plus-Rodinal25.jpg   Kodak-TriX400-Rodinal50.jpg   Fuji-Acros100-SD2525.jpg   Ilford-Delta400800-Rodinal25.jpg  
    Last edited by photophil; 08-03-2011 at 05:13 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #2

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    Looks interesting. It'd be great to compare different films in the same developer and at the same dilutions.

    Also, is it common sense to assume that inverting these images shows what the grain in a print would look like?

  3. #3

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    Wow very interesting! Thank you!

  4. #4

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    People refer to grain or graininess in a print. But it is important to always remember that what is seen in prints is not really grain. What is seen are the spaces between the grains in the negative.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  5. #5

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    Photophil,

    Thank you for this post. I would be interested in others being able to see some images of negatives produced by staining developers.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 08-03-2011 at 04:46 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

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  6. #6
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    Umm, while interesting, it would be nice to know the speed comparisons and contrast values for the films. Otherwise we don't know what the actual data represents. These are just points of data hanging out to look at.

    To be a fair comparison, all films should be developed to the same contrast and to the rated speed in a common developer.

    PE

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    I would be interested to see what the differences are for example tri-x in rodinal 1+25 and 1+50 and 1+100 stand dev. Or something like that. And taht repaeted for different developer combo's and films. However it is cool to see it up here. Thanks.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter de Groot View Post
    I would be interested to see what the differences are for example tri-x in rodinal 1+25 and 1+50 and 1+100 stand dev.
    That is also one thing I want to try. I have recipies for 1+25 and 1+50 with tilting. Does someone has a nice set of time and temperature for a 1+100 and/or 1+150 stand development?

    If I have enough time (and films) I will maybe also try to look at different levels of push development (400/640/800ISO)...

    PHILIP

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Umm, while interesting, it would be nice to know the speed comparisons and contrast values for the films. Otherwise we don't know what the actual data represents. These are just points of data hanging out to look at.

    To be a fair comparison, all films should be developed to the same contrast and to the rated speed in a common developer.
    PE
    If not especially given I take the box speed (eg 400ISO for TriX) and use the development data from the manufacturer which (normally) should give something around delta 0.6

    I know that my test here are just some small glimpses of all the combinations possible. But thought they would be interesting also in this state. Just to get an impression what we are taking about when it comes to "grain". I will not provide excessive grain-size-analysis exactly because of the problems you had adressed.

    PHILIP

  10. #10
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    If you want to see film under the microscope, and read - generally speaking - an interesting document about film, I would suggest:

    Film Grain, Resolution and Fundamental Film Particles, by Tim Vitale, 2007

    The link below opens a large (4.31 MB) PDF document
    http://cool.conservation-us.org/cool...resolution.pdf
    Last edited by Diapositivo; 08-03-2011 at 06:43 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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