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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    I'm assuming you are talking about HC-110.

    The concentrate is very concentrated, so you don't need very much of it to develop a single roll of film.

    The concentrate is also really thick, so it can be hard to accurately measure and use very small amounts of it.

    For that reason, traditionally the instructions recommended that you first dilute a workable quantity of the concentrate into a stock solution (1 +3 probably, but see note below), and then just before you develop the film, dilute that stock solution further (1 + 7) to create your working solution.

    You could dilute the entire bottle of the HC-110 into a single largish bottle of stock solution, but you probably don't want to, because while the concentrate will last a very, very, very long time, the stock solution will only last 1 to 3 months.

    So most people either:

    1) make a smaller amount of the stock solution up, and then try to use that smaller amount up before it goes bad; or
    2) use small syringes or other special tools to each time measure the small amount of concentrate required per roll and then dilute it directly to the working solution.

    As an example, say your tank requires 300 ml of working solution to develop a single roll of 135 film. For simplicity, I'll round that up to 320 ml.

    If you mix directly from concentrate to working solution, you will need to accurately measure and dispense 10 ml of concentrate and then add 310 ml of water to arrive at 320 ml of HC-110 dilution B working solution.

    Alternatively, if you decide to dilute the concentrate in stages (first to a stock solution, and then later to a working solution) you:
    a) first dilute a portion of the the concentrate to enough stock to fill a convenient sized bottle. If that bottle is, for example, 500 ml, you would make your (1 + 3) stock solution by putting 125 ml of concentrate in the 500 ml bottle and then adding 375 ml of water to fill it; then
    b) when it comes time to develop your film, for each roll of that 135 film, you just need to further dilute enough of that stock solution to 320 ml (in our example) of working solution. That is a 1 + 7 dilution - take 40 ml from the stock solution bottle and dilute it with 280 ml of water, for a total volume of 320 ml.

    NOTE: I need to warn you about one further thing. HC-110 comes in two different packagings. Most of us are familiar with the US packaging, and the examples and ratios referred to above and in the Kodak publication I linked to are based on that. There is, however, another European packaging and that HC-110 isn't as concentrated as the US packaging. As far as I am aware, the European packaging isn't labeled in a way that indicates it makes up a quantity of US gallons. You need to determine, however, which packaging you have before determining how much it is to be diluted.
    Thanks!

    Can you make those calculating measurements for 500ml or 1L please? Because i shoot only medium format 120 and also large format [4x5], no 135mm there at all yet.

    Well, my HC-110 is a "US" version because i bought it from a "US" online store.

  2. #12

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    T-Max Developer

    We discussed using T-Max Developer in July 2011 here:

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/9...developer.html

    The smaller bottle of T-max is 1/5 gallon. You’d mix it as

    1/5 gallon of concentrate + 4/5 gallon water = 1 gallon of working strength.


    You can mix any volume of working strength wanted at 1:4 as

    1 part concentrate + 4 parts water = 5 parts working strength developer.


    For a liter of working strength developer you need
    200ml concentrate + 800ml water = 1000ml

    For 1/2 liter of working strength you need
    100ml concentrate + 400ml water = 500ml

  3. #13
    Lee L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto View Post
    Thanks!

    Can you make those calculating measurements for 500ml or 1L please? Because i shoot only medium format 120 and also large format [4x5], no 135mm there at all yet.

    Well, my HC-110 is a "US" version because i bought it from a "US" online store.
    This page: http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/ has metric measures for making the final dilutions from the concentrated syrup.

    The standard ratios may seem odd at first, but some are designed for easy measurements in ounces. If you add the ratios, you come up with ounces in standard U.S. measures like pints, quarts, gallons, etc.

    1:15 = 16 parts for 16 ounces in a pint (covers 2 35mm steel reels)
    1:31 = 32 parts for 32 ounces in a quart (covers 4 35mm steel reels)
    etc.

    Dilutions C, D, F, and G are multiples of 20 when you count total parts:
    1:19 = 20 parts
    1:39 = 40 parts
    etc.

    You can make up your own, easier to measure standard dilutions in metric that are near the Kodak dilution ratios, and then make the small adjustments to time that will probably be necessary for your particular conditions even if you went exactly to recommendations. Many people do that. You just need to be consistent and be sure you have the minimum necessary concentrate per film area.

    Lee

  4. #14
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto View Post
    Thanks!

    Can you make those calculating measurements for 500ml or 1L please? Because i shoot only medium format 120 and also large format [4x5], no 135mm there at all yet.

    Well, my HC-110 is a "US" version because i bought it from a "US" online store.
    Here are the numbers re-jigged for 500 ml.

    As an example, say your tank requires 500 ml of working solution to develop a single roll of 120 film.

    If you mix directly from concentrate to working solution, you will need to accurately measure and dispense 16 ml of concentrate and then add 484 ml of water to arrive at 500 ml of HC-110 dilution B working solution.

    For this example, you don't have to be quite that accurate - 16 ml of concentrate plus 490 ml of water should be good enough.

    Alternatively, if you decide to dilute the concentrate in stages (first to a stock solution, and then later to a working solution) you:
    a) first dilute a portion of the the concentrate to enough stock to fill a convenient sized bottle. If that bottle is, for example, 500 ml, you would make your (1 + 3) stock solution by putting 125 ml of concentrate in the 500 ml bottle and then adding 375 ml of water to fill it; then
    b) when it comes time to develop your film, for each roll of that 120 film, you just need to further dilute enough of that stock solution to 500 ml (in our example) of working solution. That is a 1 + 7 dilution - take 62.5 ml from the stock solution bottle and dilute it with 437.5 ml of water, for a total volume of 500 ml.

    For the last example, you don't have to be quite that accurate - 60 ml of stock plus 440 ml of water should be good enough.

    Once you get comfortable with dilution B, you can ask us about experimenting with more dilute options. Those options permit squeezing a few more rolls of developed film out of each bottle of HC-110.

    In addition to the Covingtoninnovations site referred to above, there are other resources that refer to other dilutions. Jason Brunner's site is one of them:

    http://www.jasonbrunner.com/hc110.html
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  5. #15
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    You probably have all the advice you need by now, but I would like to state from experience that mixing the "stock" solution of HC-110 is indeed a bad idea. While it is great to have a thinner (less viscous) liquid to measure out before each developing session, I got through maybe half of the stock solution before it expired. Only then did I learn that it was possible to keep the syrup undiluted, and so my second bottle is still going strong.
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST
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  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeknom02 View Post
    You probably have all the advice you need by now, but I would like to state from experience that mixing the "stock" solution of HC-110 is indeed a bad idea. While it is great to have a thinner (less viscous) liquid to measure out before each developing session, I got through maybe half of the stock solution before it expired. Only then did I learn that it was possible to keep the syrup undiluted, and so my second bottle is still going strong.
    I disagree, heartily.

    First of all, the stock solution lasts for a long time. I have used it 8 months old in a half full bottle with perfectly normal results, even for pushing. I was just curious what would happen. I knew it would at least give me something, so I went for it. Based on the negs and prints, the stock had not even begun to show the slightest visible sign of degradation under those conditions. My Delta 3200 at EI 4000 looked just like all my other Delta 3200 at EI 4000.

    Second, the stock need not be mixed up using the entire bottle of concentrate. As I stated above, I mix up a pint of stock at a time, and split it between two bottles.

    When using stock solution, slight measuring errors are theoretically less pronounced in terms of results on the film. Slight variations in measurement are magnified when mixing straight from the concentrate. Probably okay with a runny developer like Rodinal, which doesn't really stick to things or hold bubbles, but HC-110 concentrate is gooey. And with stock solution, there is less waste than with using syringes for the concentrate, because less stuff sticks and needs to be rinsed down the drain when you clean your measuring tools. Finally, working from stock takes a good deal less time when making up the working solution (no cleaning syringes of gooey stuff), and you can follow Kodak's dilution charts without doing any math.

    There are decent arguments for both methods, but the statement that "mixing the 'stock' solution of HC-110 is indeed a bad idea" is a blanket overstatement.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto View Post
    When it is written, to make 1Gallon ..., what does that mean?
    Pour the entire contents into a bucket and add water to make a gallon. If you want a half-gallon, use half the bottle and add water to the half-gallon mark, and so on.

  8. #18

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    OK, i have to read all the links you people gave me in addition to your posts, because i feel i will have something as a mistake in measure working solutions, i prefer the second option which is to have a working solution from a stock solution not from the concentrate, but i don't know how much i should take from that concentrate bottle for smaller syrups working solutions, so i take for 1L then use that until i run out or go with 1/5 gallon or just go for the tank size? also i don't know what i will do if i want to develop 120 and then large format which is 500mL and 1L[according to my sheets tanks], so it means i will run 1.5ml time to time between 120 rolls and 4x5 sheets.

    In fact TMAX is almost i understand it, but still HC110 dilutions is puzzling me a bit, the concentrate bottle itself is not 1/5L or 1/4 Gallon, so i really don't know how they prepared that concentrate solution bottle, it is written net liquid is 473mL, to make 2Gallons or 7.6L, that means like i have to dilute it 16 times for working solutions to be nearly 2 Gallons.

  9. #19

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    As far as worrying about using every last drop... it ain't going to happen. You'll never use a 500ml bottle of concentrated developer, measure out say 50 serves of 10ml... the last one isn't going to be 10ml. The 49 prior measurings will not be that accurate (unless your using labortory grade pipettes, etc), not to mention who knows if the manufacturer put in 499ml, 501ml or 502ml initially.

    thank [insert chosen deity] that B&W film development isn't that fussy. Being consistent is more important than mixing the exact manufacturers recommended dilution. Pick a method, measure volumes consistently (use the same equipment), use a thermometer for temp control and record what you've done as you go. It will be fine.

  10. #20

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    I bought some labs measuring devices, i have friends who are working for laboratories equipments, so they can provide me what i need, most of the cylindrical tubes and measuring cups even the thermometer they brought for me, i asked them to bring a scale to measure crystal/powdered chemicals to mix for making a developer [Caffenol, they even brought the chemicals for me except the coffee], so i can try to be as much as accurate when possible, sure i may miss up something there but i will not make that as standard/usual behave to miss up things, ofcourse 1-4mL will not make that much big different once or twice, once i know how it is working then next time it will be something normal used to do, but as first time i have to be more careful or accurate as possible then i don't have many issues about solutions/syrups/drops,..etc.

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